AledoAlumni
Varsity
Everybody Ropes, Everybody Rides
Posts: 2,091
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Post by AledoAlumni on Jul 25, 2021 9:18:03 GMT -6
I agree with you with the 4a issue 100%. Now go look and see what the disparity can be in a 6a matchup and you will find it is very possible a team with 2300 kids could match up with one over 5000. So, how would what BandidoNB is talking about not help all the way down the line from 6a to 2a? There is no doubt building an additional classification will cause more travel for many of the schools. So what. Pony up and pay the piper......it's for the kids! My taxes on a 1800sf home & 1 acre are absolutely ridiculous already but if it cost me another $100/year show me where to send the check! The difference doesn't really matter much when schools are that big. Also, if you take the top 100, that's 2900+. Keep in mind, though, that the bigger school districts probably won't like having their schools split up - that's why they won't approve a division split. So if they don't like it currently, why would they want to do so just to create a 7A? 7A - 100 schools - 2901+ 6A - 241 schools - 2001-2900 5A - 216 schools - 1001-2000 4A - 149 schools - 501-1000 See the issue? To fix it, look below: 7A - 100 schools - 2901+ 6A - 213 schools - 2071-2900 5A - 200 schools - 1151-2070 4A - 200 schools - 501-1150 It could work, but you are basically making it easier for the big schools to win a title, but not doing much for the school who has 501 students. Basically - 4A is where the main issue lies (UIL has said as much), and it is debatable on whether or not the enrollment gap affects much in 6A. I agree that the enrollment difference matters much more in 4A and below. Simply from a resources standpoint. I wonder what the landscape would look like if you worked the realignment small to large.
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Post by BandidoNB on Jul 25, 2021 10:39:11 GMT -6
I completely disagree with you on the enlarged sentence above. We played Katy 3 times in the semis in 4 seasons and at that time we had about 2200 kids and they were about 3400. How is that any difference that not a big disadvantage? When we played DeSoto in the finals we were still under 2,300 and they were way over 3k. And now, not that it matters much because our program is a shadow of what it was then, we are D1 with only 2600 kids. Take a look at what a bunch of the Houston and DFW 6a D1 numbers are! Well, the UIL's mission is to take the top 250 schools as 6A, then keep a 2:1 ratio in all of the other classifications. UIL doesn't currently care about the ratio in 6A, but even if they did, it would be 2:1, and your matchup was firmly inside that. It's also something that could be fixed by a divisional split, if 6A would just get on board with it. So you would rather give the largest 100 schools an even easier path to championships in non-football sports than direct the help where help is truly needed (4A)? Currently, 4A has two state champions split between 190 or so schools. While 5A and 6A have four champions between more than 500 schools. By adding a 7A, you are only maintaining the ratio of state champions vs schools at what 4A currently has. I don’t see how that’s an issue.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 25, 2021 11:45:02 GMT -6
Well, the UIL's mission is to take the top 250 schools as 6A, then keep a 2:1 ratio in all of the other classifications. UIL doesn't currently care about the ratio in 6A, but even if they did, it would be 2:1, and your matchup was firmly inside that. It's also something that could be fixed by a divisional split, if 6A would just get on board with it. So you would rather give the largest 100 schools an even easier path to championships in non-football sports than direct the help where help is truly needed (4A)? Currently, 4A has two state champions split between 190 or so schools. While 5A and 6A have four champions between more than 500 schools. By adding a 7A, you are only maintaining the ratio of state champions vs schools at what 4A currently has. I don’t see how that’s an issue. Misleading math since 6A isn't split up into 2 divisions.
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Post by mattsteppdctf on Jul 25, 2021 12:32:54 GMT -6
7A is not needed now and it may not be needed in 2024 but its coming and its needed as growth continues in DFW, Houston and Austin. New schools aren't built as 4A/3A schools they are built as 5A/6A so by adding them into the mix, it continues to push the smaller 5A D2's into 4A thus expanding the enrollment gap at the 4A level. That will continue in 2022 with nine new 5A/6A schools being added to the mix so the top # of 4A is probably going to rise to 1250+ while the bottom will still be low 500s. I dont think 7A will be a full 32 district conference when it debuts it'll probably be eight or maybe 16 districts...it'll only really impact the largest 5A's who probably jump back into the new look 6A and the largest 4A's who probably move back to Class 5A and maybe you see a few of the bigger 3A's jump back to 4A
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Post by mattsteppdctf on Jul 25, 2021 12:36:20 GMT -6
Currently, 4A has two state champions split between 190 or so schools. While 5A and 6A have four champions between more than 500 schools. By adding a 7A, you are only maintaining the ratio of state champions vs schools at what 4A currently has. I don’t see how that’s an issue. Misleading math since 6A isn't split up into 2 divisions. 6A splits post-season but they do split Class 6A 245 schools 32 districts 7.65 teams per district Class 5A D1 129 schools 16 districts 8.06 teams per district Class 5A D2 122 schools 16 districts 7.62 teams per district Class 4A D1 95 schools 16 districts 5.94 teams per district Class 4A D2 93 schools 16 districts 5.81 teams per district
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Post by rtxc1 on Jul 25, 2021 14:37:23 GMT -6
Well, the UIL's mission is to take the top 250 schools as 6A, then keep a 2:1 ratio in all of the other classifications. UIL doesn't currently care about the ratio in 6A, but even if they did, it would be 2:1, and your matchup was firmly inside that. It's also something that could be fixed by a divisional split, if 6A would just get on board with it. So you would rather give the largest 100 schools an even easier path to championships in non-football sports than direct the help where help is truly needed (4A)? Currently, 4A has two state champions split between 190 or so schools. While 5A and 6A have four champions between more than 500 schools. By adding a 7A, you are only maintaining the ratio of state champions vs schools at what 4A currently has. I don’t see how that’s an issue. The issue is the enrollment gap not the number of schools per state championship. 4A has as many schools as it currently can to fill out 32 districts, but it actually has too many schools to have a decent enrollment range. Specifically, the divisions do help 4A out in football, but outside of football, the gap is insane. Just scrap the divisions and go to 10A. But, once again, multi-HS ISDs in 6A don't want their schools split up.
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Post by Hounhound on Jul 25, 2021 16:38:13 GMT -6
Currently, 4A has two state champions split between 190 or so schools. While 5A and 6A have four champions between more than 500 schools. By adding a 7A, you are only maintaining the ratio of state champions vs schools at what 4A currently has. I don’t see how that’s an issue. The issue is the enrollment gap not the number of schools per state championship. 4A has as many schools as it currently can to fill out 32 districts, but it actually has too many schools to have a decent enrollment range. Specifically, the divisions do help 4A out in football, but outside of football, the gap is insane. Just scrap the divisions and go to 10A. But, once again, multi-HS ISDs in 6A don't want their schools split up. A good number of 5A multi school ISD don't want their schools split up either.
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Post by rtxc1 on Jul 25, 2021 19:18:52 GMT -6
The issue is the enrollment gap not the number of schools per state championship. 4A has as many schools as it currently can to fill out 32 districts, but it actually has too many schools to have a decent enrollment range. Specifically, the divisions do help 4A out in football, but outside of football, the gap is insane. Just scrap the divisions and go to 10A. But, once again, multi-HS ISDs in 6A don't want their schools split up. A good number of 5A multi school ISD don't want their schools split up either. That is obvious due to the high number of opts ups. But 6A's is at another level.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Jul 26, 2021 5:29:22 GMT -6
I completely disagree with you on the enlarged sentence above. We played Katy 3 times in the semis in 4 seasons and at that time we had about 2200 kids and they were about 3400. How is that any difference that not a big disadvantage? When we played DeSoto in the finals we were still under 2,300 and they were way over 3k. And now, not that it matters much because our program is a shadow of what it was then, we are D1 with only 2600 kids. Take a look at what a bunch of the Houston and DFW 6a D1 numbers are! Well, the UIL's mission is to take the top 250 schools as 6A, then keep a 2:1 ratio in all of the other classifications. UIL doesn't currently care about the ratio in 6A, but even if they did, it would be 2:1, and your matchup was firmly inside that. It's also something that could be fixed by a divisional split, if 6A would just get on board with it. So you would rather give the largest 100 schools an even easier path to championships in non-football sports than direct the help where help is truly needed (4A)? I'm not sure I grasp what you are saying fully. I think if they created a 7a and took the largest 120-140 enrollments into it they'd be able to redraw all enrollment numbers to help all schools become more equal. I'm not talking about just getting the biggest of the big out of 6a and not reworking numbers. Sorry if I came across that way before.
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Post by mattsteppdctf on Jul 26, 2021 6:48:30 GMT -6
They are running out of room to manuever in 5A/6A....splitting 6A won't relieve the pressure you've got to add a new classification....I dont believe 7A will be split divisions until it gets to 32 districts....so if you have one state champ it won't be much different than split divisions in 4A or any other classification
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Post by Clemensbuff on Jul 26, 2021 7:31:22 GMT -6
They are running out of room to manuever in 5A/6A....splitting 6A won't relieve the pressure you've got to add a new classification....I dont believe 7A will be split divisions until it gets to 32 districts....so if you have one state champ it won't be much different than split divisions in 4A or any other classification What number do you see as the cut-off from 6a to 7a? I would hope they would try and push at least 100 schools into 7a???
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Post by mattsteppdctf on Jul 26, 2021 7:59:47 GMT -6
They are running out of room to manuever in 5A/6A....splitting 6A won't relieve the pressure you've got to add a new classification....I dont believe 7A will be split divisions until it gets to 32 districts....so if you have one state champ it won't be much different than split divisions in 4A or any other classification What number do you see as the cut-off from 6a to 7a? I would hope they would try and push at least 100 schools into 7a??? I think its impossible to guess this far in advance...I personally dont think we'll see it til 2026.....I think 100 schools could be a decent starting point if you want to go 16 districts with no split division....I did an 8 district mock up right now with about 75 schools (73 largest plus the 2 Jesuits) and it works....I used zones etc within the districts but it's 100% workable
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Post by BandidoNB on Jul 26, 2021 8:57:00 GMT -6
Currently, 4A has two state champions split between 190 or so schools. While 5A and 6A have four champions between more than 500 schools. By adding a 7A, you are only maintaining the ratio of state champions vs schools at what 4A currently has. I don’t see how that’s an issue. The issue is the enrollment gap not the number of schools per state championship. 4A has as many schools as it currently can to fill out 32 districts, but it actually has too many schools to have a decent enrollment range. Specifically, the divisions do help 4A out in football, but outside of football, the gap is insane. Just scrap the divisions and go to 10A. But, once again, multi-HS ISDs in 6A don't want their schools split up. But isn’t the enrollment gap issue mitigated by the divisional split? You no longer have a 2:1 gap in 4A districts. But in 6A you could still have 2,220 schools playing schools more than twice as large. Having a 7A won’t fix it, but it will relieve so many enrollment gaps.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
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Post by Deleted on Jul 26, 2021 10:21:32 GMT -6
The issue is the enrollment gap not the number of schools per state championship. 4A has as many schools as it currently can to fill out 32 districts, but it actually has too many schools to have a decent enrollment range. Specifically, the divisions do help 4A out in football, but outside of football, the gap is insane. Just scrap the divisions and go to 10A. But, once again, multi-HS ISDs in 6A don't want their schools split up. But isn’t the enrollment gap issue mitigated by the divisional split? You no longer have a 2:1 gap in 4A districts. But in 6A you could still have 2,220 schools playing schools more than twice as large. Having a 7A won’t fix it, but it will relieve so many enrollment gaps. Exactly. They keep including the 4A DII numbers with the 4A DI numbers in their examples and they are split regardless if both have the 4 in the title lol.
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Post by arges on Jul 26, 2021 15:44:56 GMT -6
Also the UIL should hold fast against the schools opting up. Agree. Put it on the multi school ISD to balance their enrollments or play where they land. College Station ISD rezoned right before the last realignment trying to get CSHS and Consol in the same district. Consol fell just short of 5AD1 and stayed in their 5aD2 district. The main problem is opting up classes as well as divisions. The Garland schools shouldn't opt up South Garland and Naaman Forest if they don't have the numbers. The same with schools with 4A numbers opting up (2 out of 3 going Division 1). If there are any opt ups in multiple school districts, there should be be an equal or more schools in Division. Of the number of schools opting to Division 1 in Class 5A, only Baytown Lee, Laredo Cigarroa, and Harlandale McCollum would have qualified. If school districts in San Antonio and Corpus Christi don't like it, maybe they should do something about. Amarillo and Frisco do, so they can do that too.
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