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Post by ricosuave on Dec 18, 2023 13:37:04 GMT -6
The one thing Clinton said that was perfectly on target, "it's the economy stupid." Entertainment is the first thing on the budget to get cut. Perfectly fitting. Great point. This too.
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Post by karlosy on Dec 18, 2023 15:14:56 GMT -6
The one thing Clinton said that was perfectly on target, "it's the economy stupid." Entertainment is the first thing on the budget to get cut. Perfectly fitting. Great point. This too. aledo fatigue The 6a-d1 and 5a-d2 games had more people than last year
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Post by rtxc1 on Dec 18, 2023 21:55:10 GMT -6
One other thing I saw on Twitter is school is happening this week due to where NYE landed. It may not have made a huge difference, but I’m sure there were more than a few coaches who chose to stay home due to school on Monday.
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Post by BandidoNB on Dec 18, 2023 22:10:51 GMT -6
One other thing I saw on Twitter is school is happening this week due to where NYE landed. It may not have made a huge difference, but I’m sure there were more than a few coaches who chose to stay home due to school on Monday. Is it intentional on the UIL’s part now to have the weekend before Christmas open (after the state championships)?
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Post by BearcatOrange on Dec 19, 2023 0:20:33 GMT -6
Perfectly fitting. Great point. This too. aledo fatigue The 6a-d1 and 5a-d2 games had more people than last year Lol no, there may be some of that, but if anything we're seeing more Dallas fatigue than Aledo fatigue. I could get into the numbers, but to save everyone a lot of time you generally see a 10% decrease in attendance from the Saturday morning slot to the Friday nightcap. Aledo's drop off is 21% from last year, but given their attendance numbers from 2022's Saturday College Station game was almost the exact same as 2017's (28160 vs 28163), it's probably pretty safe to assume the extra 10% decline comes from their opponent, specifically with how far they are from AT&T. The potential parity could also play a part, but that's not really quantifiable. I think it's hard to try and put this on Aledo as if suddenly people were all on board for Championship 11 but Championship 12 was just a bridge too far. If you got Aledo and Longview or Aledo and Desoto in a final together, it doesn't matter if they're going on 20 championships in 30 years, people would show up. What is quantifiable is the massive drop in Saturday's attendance. Sure, if you're looking at last years, the SOC and PNG matchup is up 5% and Duncanville is up 1.5%, but you should see closer to a 10% bump in attendance going from Friday to Saturday. Actually, given SOC played before Duncanville and NS in 2021, we can compare those two years. 2021 5AD2 Dallas S. Oak Cliff vs Liberty Hill Attendance: 45769 6AD1 Duncanville vs GP North Shore Attendance: 42544 2023 5AD2 Dallas SouthOak Cliff vs Port Neches-Groves Attendance: 33913 6AD1 Duncanville vs Galena Park North Shore Attendance: 40673 That's a 26% drop for SOC and a 4.4% drop for Duncanville with more constant variables than comparing them to last year's numbers. Mind you, that's without Desoto being in the lineup for 2021. It's also worth noting Desoto's attendance dropped 7% from 2022's game. Also, keep in mind, this is is also after a 11% drop in attendance from 2019 to 2021 for the Duncanville North Shore matchup. 2023 saw a 11% drop in attendance from 2021 from Saturday alone despite having 3 of the same teams and having 3 teams that are less than 25 minutes away from the stadium headlining. I think what we're really seeing is the drop off that's been happening for a few years now that was covered up by 2020's limited attendance as well as 2021 and 2022's surge from the Dallas schools being in attendance. Those two factors probably help cover up the general drop in attendance where when we now are seeing the enthusiasm for the Dallas schools wane, it looks like a much more drastic drop off than it actually was. I mean, just at a glance, the Gilmer v Bellville game had 8k less people than the Gilmer v China Spring game in 2021, and that's with both game playing at the same time Friday. I mean, if it were just a matter of people wanting to see new teams, why was the Denton Ryan v. Alvin Shadow Creek 5AD1 game in 2019's attendance only 18,139? Or even more recently, the College Station v. Katy Paetow 5AD1 game in 2021 only 12,112? The truth that people don't really want to acknowledge is some teams just travel better to AT&T than others, and the glamour of playing there is starting to wear off. If you get an Aledo or a Highland Park vs a Temple or a College Station, everything looks fine and dandy, but when you get a school that doesn't travel quite as well or isn't as close to Dallas vs a team nowhere near Dallas, attendance just tanks. If you had a Forney in that game instead of Aledo, attendance might have looked closer to the 2021 5AD1 game. I haven't broken down the distance from AT&T over the past few years, but it seemed like there were a lot of teams not very far from Jerry World this year compared to some others. Despite that proximity, this year still saw a significant drop off. That would point to something more than just team fatigue, if that's the case. If the attendance is suddenly becoming a problem, it might be time for some real conversations about different arrangements.
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Post by FB fan on Dec 19, 2023 12:53:55 GMT -6
I've been doing a little more research. Before settling on AT&T the distance from all the teams to the SC games were compared between AT&T, Alamo Dome and NRG. The average distance in each case for all the teams every year from 2011 thru 2017 was less to AT&T. Not a lot but less. NRG made the decision even easier by charging three times what AT&T charged and that came from a Houston Chronicle article. Unfortunately all this came from behind pay walls such as the Dallas Morning News and Houston Chronicle so I couldn't copy and paste.
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Dec 20, 2023 9:52:14 GMT -6
Perfectly fitting. Great point. This too. aledo fatigue The 6a-d1 and 5a-d2 games had more people than last year It's, "we're tired of seeing all those programs with recruited players", fatigue.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Dec 20, 2023 10:09:14 GMT -6
aledo fatigue The 6a-d1 and 5a-d2 games had more people than last year It's, "we're tired of seeing all those programs with recruited players", fatigue. Do you ever stop with this stuff Recruited? If they recruited or anyone else has report it to the UIL. If not, then give it a rest because everyone on here is getting very tired of your wining. If you program wins big, the players are going to move in. FACT
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Dec 20, 2023 10:37:51 GMT -6
It's, "we're tired of seeing all those programs with recruited players", fatigue. Do you ever stop with this stuff Recruited? If they recruited or anyone else has report it to the UIL. If not, then give it a rest because everyone on here is getting very tired of your wining. If you program wins big, the players are going to move in. FACT Lmao. Do I strike you as someone that gives a chit about the whining of my opinions by strangers? I don't give a chit that some programs have found a way to game the system its still bullchit and ruins the game. You didn't have programs winning 11 titles in 14 years back in our day because players mostly played where the F they were supposed to play. If you don't like my opinions then don't respond to them because I'm gonna keep on with it genius.
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Post by mattsteppdctf on Dec 20, 2023 12:54:51 GMT -6
One other thing I saw on Twitter is school is happening this week due to where NYE landed. It may not have made a huge difference, but I’m sure there were more than a few coaches who chose to stay home due to school on Monday. Is it intentional on the UIL’s part now to have the weekend before Christmas open (after the state championships)? It was this year....I think it'll be moved back a week next year to Dec 18-21
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Post by BearcatOrange on Dec 20, 2023 17:28:29 GMT -6
It's, "we're tired of seeing all those programs with recruited players", fatigue. Do you ever stop with this stuff Recruited? If they recruited or anyone else has report it to the UIL. If not, then give it a rest because everyone on here is getting very tired of your wining. If you program wins big, the players are going to move in. FACT That line of thinking is really fallacious. A lot of things have changed since "back in their day", but by this kind of ill formed reasoning, stuff like CTE and concussion protocol didn't exist back then because kids were tougher and now they need to be coddled. We could follow his logic and retrofitted reasoning to make the opposite argument. Before the year 2000, it was a huge achievement for a game to have an attendance of around 40k, and only 4 games managed to hit 40k at that time. Now, it's expected for at least one game to hit that every year, with 21 games hitting 40k attendance since 2010. Clearly, people didn't care about these teams back before 2000 with all the kids "playing where they're supposed to" all that much, and people care more about these teams now. Of course anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that's not the case and there are other factors at play, but the same goes for the idea that teams must recruit or skirt around the rules in ways they never used to because teams have been more successful lately. The trend he's complaining about, teams winning multiple times in a short time frame, started in the 80's-90's when we started seeing a dilution of championships. You didn't see people winning 11 times in 15 years because there were only 7 champions in 95, 6 in the 80's, 4 in the 70's etc. Now that there are 12, of course it's easier for these programs on a run to rack up more championships than before. If you had a 4AD2 before 95, Stephenville might have won more than just 4 in 7 years. Odessa might have more than 4 title game appearances and 2 titles in 8 years if from 1965 to 1971 you had more than 4 champions. Dilute the bracket of those eras, you see more titles come these big programs way. If we didn't have a split in 4A, there's a good chance Aledo doesn't win in 2009, 2010, and 2011. You could effectively almost cut the number of titles Aledo has by at least a fourth if there was only one 4A/5A bracket. You can simplify this even more, SOC and Aledo won back to back in 2021/2022 and 2022/2023. You condense 5A into 1 Division, one of those teams doesn't go back to back. This dilution of competition and parity could very well be a factor in why we are starting to see numbers decline, but again I don't think there's any way to actually quantify that at this time and any such assertion would just be speculation.
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Dec 20, 2023 19:37:13 GMT -6
Do you ever stop with this stuff Recruited? If they recruited or anyone else has report it to the UIL. If not, then give it a rest because everyone on here is getting very tired of your wining. If you program wins big, the players are going to move in. FACT That line of thinking is really fallacious. A lot of things have changed since "back in their day", but by this kind of ill formed reasoning, stuff like CTE and concussion protocol didn't exist back then because kids were tougher and now they need to be coddled. We could follow his logic and retrofitted reasoning to make the opposite argument. Before the year 2000, it was a huge achievement for a game to have an attendance of around 40k, and only 4 games managed to hit 40k at that time. Now, it's expected for at least one game to hit that every year, with 21 games hitting 40k attendance since 2010. Clearly, people didn't care about these teams back before 2000 with all the kids "playing where they're supposed to" all that much, and people care more about these teams now. Of course anyone with a modicum of common sense knows that's not the case and there are other factors at play, but the same goes for the idea that teams must recruit or skirt around the rules in ways they never used to because teams have been more successful lately. The trend he's complaining about, teams winning multiple times in a short time frame, started in the 80's-90's when we started seeing a dilution of championships. You didn't see people winning 11 times in 15 years because there were only 7 champions in 95, 6 in the 80's, 4 in the 70's etc. Now that there are 12, of course it's easier for these programs on a run to rack up more championships than before. If you had a 4AD2 before 95, Stephenville might have won more than just 4 in 7 years. Odessa might have more than 4 title game appearances and 2 titles in 8 years if from 1965 to 1971 you had more than 4 champions. Dilute the bracket of those eras, you see more titles come these big programs way. If we didn't have a split in 4A, there's a good chance Aledo doesn't win in 2009, 2010, and 2011. You could effectively almost cut the number of titles Aledo has by at least a fourth if there was only one 4A/5A bracket. You can simplify this even more, SOC and Aledo won back to back in 2021/2022 and 2022/2023. You condense 5A into 1 Division, one of those teams doesn't go back to back. This dilution of competition and parity could very well be a factor in why we are starting to see numbers decline, but again I don't think there's any way to actually quantify that at this time and any such assertion would just be speculation. All i read from your comment was, "deflection". This team "might have" that team "might have" but they didn't. Aledo did. You can fool the guy in here that loves to be on the good side of all the members that represent elite programs but you don't fool anyone with a brain. Without all the elite transfers you'd have no state titles. Period.
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Post by sotex on Dec 20, 2023 21:26:46 GMT -6
Build it and they will come. ~Field of Dreams ~
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Post by FB fan on Dec 20, 2023 21:45:19 GMT -6
Aledo is an easy short drive from Ft. Worth. It's A rated academically and a safe desirable place to live by most measures. Once the ball got rolling others wanted in. Look at the Austin areas like Lake Travis that have the same thing going on with the division change interruption of run.
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Post by oldtarponman on Dec 20, 2023 22:27:47 GMT -6
6A-D1 game had slightly higher attendance this year. 5A-D2 also had a bit more people attend. 5A-D1 title game had nearly 6000 less fans in attendance compared to a year ago. A huge "IF" Brownsville Veterans Memorial had beaten Smithson Valley, the Aledo vs. Brownsville Veterans Memorial game would have set an attendance record! Absolutely not. And here's why..... 1. Distance: RGV to Arlington is just too damn far. 2. Cost: You're asking people who, for the most part, are on the lower and lower-middle end of the income spectrum to drive 11-12 hours (gas $) and then get hotel rooms for 1, possibly 2 nights at what are very likely jacked up rates because it's Championship Week? No....just...no. Your average Brownsville, Texas resident wouldn't be able to afford all of that. Now, would supporters be there? Absolutely! But I guarantee you the vast majority of those would be alums from Brownsville and other parts of the RGV who happen to now live in or near the DFW area. Close enough to where they could just make a day of it and only have to spend enough $ for maybe 1 or 2 gas refills. If anyone from the Brownsville area made the trip, it would be parents & family of the players and coaching staff. Everyone else would stay home and watch the game on TV. The attendance record wouldn't come close to being broken. NOW, if the game was at the Alamodome in San Antonio? RGV fans would obliterate the attendance record by themselves. The other team's fans would simply be the cherry on top. Why? San Antonio is close enough to the RGV that pretty much all RGV residents can drive up, attend the game, then drive back home all in the same day. Here's a real life example of this: When Port Isabel played in the 2003 3A Semifinals in the Alamodome, PI "allegedly" brought 20k fans by themselves based on rough estimates from people who were there and got to walk around to the other side to see how full the PI side was. The lower bowl level and 2nd deck from goal line to goal line was 100% full. There were also a lot of others sitting at the end zones on both sides. I assume those were coaches & such. They had to open the 3rd level for us and that ended up being about 50% filled. IDK the exact number though, but if someone more familiar with the facility has an idea, please post here. Now, had Port Isabel won, the championship game against Atlanta would have been in the Alamodome. Port Isabel were anticipating roughly 40-45k fans just for the PI side alone, but personally, I think there would have been more than that. WAY more.
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