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Post by markp3602 on Dec 1, 2023 9:32:12 GMT -6
Melissa is a city of only 16k and has an enrollment with about 50 less students than Alice. Leave it up to clemensbuff and they wouldn't have that beautiful stadium because what does a program of that size need with a 10k seat stadium lol. Really This is what you have as your argument here? Do you really want to do this? OK, it appears you do so here we go................... The absolute only thing you are right about is that both school districts are very close in enrollment today (2023). 4269 total for Alice & 4874 for Melissa. So here are some facts to debunk your cherry picking numbers. You could have done the same before making a post like this but you choose not to. All the information is very easily available online. One district is upper middle class, the other is not. I don't consider this the big factor in any way but it certainly plays a part when it comes to bonding tax payer dollars for improvements.
| Melissa | Alice | Avg Household Income | $128,068 | $62,284 | Medium Home Cost | $512,810 | $185,000 | Avg School Tax ($1.10/100 | $5,663 | $2,035 | Population @ or below poverty rate | 3.61% | 23.95% |
One district is growing like crazy, the other is not. This is a HUGE factor in what is needed in improvements and new, more, and bigger facilitites! Growth numbers and percentages Year | Alice | % Change | Melissa | % Change
| 2001 | 19,215 | | 1,691 | | 2005 | 19,564 | 1.82%
| 2,586 | 52.93%
| 2010 | 19,136 | -2.19% | 4,844 | 87.32% | 2015 | 19,341 | 1.07% | 7,546 | 55.78% | 2020 | 17,848 | -7.72% | 14,338 | 90.01% | 2023 | 17,693 | -0.9% | 23,721 | 65.4% | Change from 2001 to 2023 |
| -9.1% |
| 995.7% |
Seriously man, if you want to call me out and argue, then at least have something intelligent to argue about and to compare. One town has decreased in population the last 23+ years by almost 10% while the other is damn near 1,000% bigger than it was 23 years ago! Last, by 2030 Melissa ISD is projected to have nearly 8k students which will damn near be double what Alice ISD has. Add another 10 years to that and the numbers get staggering. alice numbers r pretty dang sad. melissa just like many suburban type school r all growing. in alice once majority of oil field companies left the population started to follow. and when it was booming alice didnt take advantage of it to build the city as much as it could of. and our poverty level isnt anything new. could alice do better ? it sure could but the trends dont speak that. alice just needs a nice stadium that’s unique to alice and that will make alice proud. but u already seeing people throwing fits about it being some history cement stadium and all the history behind it. im just curious on how many of those people go to any event there seeing people fall on the steps. see the rid bar sticking out in places, uneven ramps. when the city ia really behind their school great things happen.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Dec 1, 2023 9:56:20 GMT -6
alice numbers r pretty dang sad. melissa just like many suburban type school r all growing. in alice once majority of oil field companies left the population started to follow. and when it was booming alice didnt take advantage of it to build the city as much as it could of. and our poverty level isnt anything new. could alice do better ? it sure could but the trends dont speak that. alice just needs a nice stadium that’s unique to alice and that will make alice proud. but u already seeing people throwing fits about it being some history cement stadium and all the history behind it. im just curious on how many of those people go to any event there seeing people fall on the steps. see the rid bar sticking out in places, uneven ramps. when the city ia really behind their school great things happen. markp, I hope you and all Alice folks know that my post wasn't meant to shed any bad light on Alice in any way. Hell, I love South TX small towns. Always have and always will. No better people anywhere IMO! To the part bolded above I think the answer is yes but it will probably not be easy to attract growth, industry, $$$. 281 is a major highway so that in itself can help greatly I believe. I look at Seguin as a possible example for Alice. For many, many years Seguin did not reach out and look for growth and more industry. They had a couple of big boys in town and that was about it.....The Steel plant, Alamo Group, and a couple of others that were mainstays in the town. I think they wanted to remain sleepy little old Seguin and not get bigger which is a great thought but just doesn't work for the health of a community in most situations. A few years ago Seguin really changed and started bringing in big companies like Caterpillar and some others that created many good paying jobs with good benefits. They did it with some tax breaks just like other cities do to entice those big companies in and it is paying dividends already for the entire city, not just for Seguin ISD. Hopefully the brass of Alice can recognize opportunities that may come along and take advantage of them.
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Post by markp3602 on Dec 1, 2023 10:41:18 GMT -6
alice numbers r pretty dang sad. melissa just like many suburban type school r all growing. in alice once majority of oil field companies left the population started to follow. and when it was booming alice didnt take advantage of it to build the city as much as it could of. and our poverty level isnt anything new. could alice do better ? it sure could but the trends dont speak that. alice just needs a nice stadium that’s unique to alice and that will make alice proud. but u already seeing people throwing fits about it being some history cement stadium and all the history behind it. im just curious on how many of those people go to any event there seeing people fall on the steps. see the rid bar sticking out in places, uneven ramps. when the city ia really behind their school great things happen. markp, I hope you and all Alice folks know that my post wasn't meant to shed any bad light on Alice in any way. Hell, I love South TX small towns. Always have and always will. No better people anywhere IMO! To the part bolded above I think the answer is yes but it will probably not be easy to attract growth, industry, $$$. 281 is a major highway so that in itself can help greatly I believe. I look at Seguin as a possible example for Alice. For many, many years Seguin did not reach out and look for growth and more industry. They had a couple of big boys in town and that was about it.....The Steel plant, Alamo Group, and a couple of others that were mainstays in the town. I think they wanted to remain sleepy little old Seguin and not get bigger which is a great thought but just doesn't work for the health of a community in most situations. A few years ago Seguin really changed and started bringing in big companies like Caterpillar and some others that created many good paying jobs with good benefits. They did it with some tax breaks just like other cities do to entice those big companies in and it is paying dividends already for the entire city, not just for Seguin ISD. Hopefully the brass of Alice can recognize opportunities that may come along and take advantage of them. ya no hard feelings. we have been saying if for years.. there is alot of great people in alice. we could just do better as a community building our youth, having new jobs etc.
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Dec 1, 2023 12:18:02 GMT -6
Nothing this outsider is posting has anything to do with anything. I don't know how this all works and I'm not gonna pretend to but what I do know is there is apparently $25 million they can build a stadium with and NOT have taxes go up. In fact I heard they could go as high as $45 without taxes being raised. The reason this stadium won't happen if it doesn't has nothing to do with this outsiders post and everything to do with the town's jerk and his blind followers who say "yes sir" to anything that comes out of his mouth.
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Post by markp3602 on Dec 1, 2023 12:35:57 GMT -6
Nothing this outsider is posting has anything to do with anything. I don't know how this all works and I'm not gonna pretend to but what I do know is there is apparently $25 million they can build a stadium with and NOT have taxes go up. In fact I heard they could go as high as $45 without taxes being raised. The reason this stadium won't happen if it doesn't has nothing to do with this outsiders post and everything to do with the town's jerk and his blind followers who say "yes sir" to anything that comes out of his mouth. y does this guy think its gonna cost the tax payers. if the deal is said not to. then whats it to him. like u said if its not built on his land henis against it.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Dec 1, 2023 12:47:15 GMT -6
Nothing this outsider is posting has anything to do with anything. I don't know how this all works and I'm not gonna pretend to but what I do know is there is apparently $25 million they can build a stadium with and NOT have taxes go up. In fact I heard they could go as high as $45 without taxes being raised. The reason this stadium won't happen if it doesn't has nothing to do with this outsiders post and everything to do with the town's jerk and his blind followers who say "yes sir" to anything that comes out of his mouth. Typical chino shot after what you post is proved to be absolute BS. Myself and literally everyone else on this forum has come to expect it from you. All I did was show the day and night difference in a school district you compared Alice to and how they are NOTHING alike in any way, shape, or form. Deflect some more all you want. So, you are going to spend $25m over the next few years but the taxes are not going to go up in a district and town who's tax base has not grown but actually declined the past few years. It must be magic math for that to happen and anyone believing that has absolutely no clue of how things work. NONE! My guess is you have never owned property in your lift and have always rented and likely never seen a tax bill because of it.
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Dec 1, 2023 13:38:14 GMT -6
Nothing this outsider is posting has anything to do with anything. I don't know how this all works and I'm not gonna pretend to but what I do know is there is apparently $25 million they can build a stadium with and NOT have taxes go up. In fact I heard they could go as high as $45 without taxes being raised. The reason this stadium won't happen if it doesn't has nothing to do with this outsiders post and everything to do with the town's jerk and his blind followers who say "yes sir" to anything that comes out of his mouth. Typical chino shot after what you post is proved to be absolute BS. Myself and literally everyone else on this forum has come to expect it from you. All I did was show the day and night difference in a school district you compared Alice to and how they are NOTHING alike in any way, shape, or form. Deflect some more all you want. So, you are going to spend $25m over the next few years but the taxes are not going to go up in a district and town who's tax base has not grown but actually declined the past few years. It must be magic math for that to happen and anyone believing that has absolutely no clue of how things work. NONE! My guess is you have never owned property in your lift and have always rented and likely never seen a tax bill because of it. You're an idiot that thinks you know everything going on in everyone else's city. Period.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Dec 1, 2023 14:57:01 GMT -6
Typical chino shot after what you post is proved to be absolute BS. Myself and literally everyone else on this forum has come to expect it from you. All I did was show the day and night difference in a school district you compared Alice to and how they are NOTHING alike in any way, shape, or form. Deflect some more all you want. So, you are going to spend $25m over the next few years but the taxes are not going to go up in a district and town who's tax base has not grown but actually declined the past few years. It must be magic math for that to happen and anyone believing that has absolutely no clue of how things work. NONE! My guess is you have never owned property in your lift and have always rented and likely never seen a tax bill because of it. You're an idiot that thinks you know everything going on in everyone else's city. Period. And there he is, the Chino everyone on this board knows. It is what people like you do. Lose any debate and you resort to name calling. It is called deflection and 'look at me'! I have never claimed to know what you are saying. What I know is the facts and I showed them to you once again after a very ignorant comparison you made of Alice and Melissa. So, I hit a nerve and guessed correctly that you are not a tax payer and never have been. No wonder you cannot understand how taxes work!
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Dec 1, 2023 15:46:35 GMT -6
You're an idiot that thinks you know everything going on in everyone else's city. Period. And there he is, the Chino everyone on this board knows. It is what people like you do. Lose any debate and you resort to name calling. It is called deflection and 'look at me'! I have never claimed to know what you are saying. What I know is the facts and I showed them to you once again after a very ignorant comparison you made of Alice and Melissa. So, I hit a nerve and guessed correctly that you are not a tax payer and never have been. No wonder you cannot understand how taxes work! I didn't lose anything. You know nothing about our community or the jacka$$ person with big influence that I'm talking about. You're a douche that thinks because you Google some poll numbers that you're always right.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Dec 1, 2023 18:31:47 GMT -6
And there he is, the Chino everyone on this board knows. It is what people like you do. Lose any debate and you resort to name calling. It is called deflection and 'look at me'! I have never claimed to know what you are saying. What I know is the facts and I showed them to you once again after a very ignorant comparison you made of Alice and Melissa. So, I hit a nerve and guessed correctly that you are not a tax payer and never have been. No wonder you cannot understand how taxes work! I didn't lose anything. You know nothing about our community or the jacka$$ person with big influence that I'm talking about. You're a douche that thinks because you Google some poll numbers that you're always right. More name calling. Why? Because you know you are dead wrong about something that I pointed out and it is your ONLY way to deal with things. Polls? What polls? I don't need to live in Alice to know when someone compares Melissa ISD to Alice ISD as being similar they are completely wrong and out of touch. Instead of name calling like a small child please tell us all how Alice and Melissa are similar.
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Dec 1, 2023 19:59:49 GMT -6
I didn't lose anything. You know nothing about our community or the jacka$$ person with big influence that I'm talking about. You're a douche that thinks because you Google some poll numbers that you're always right. More name calling. Why? Because you know you are dead wrong about something that I pointed out and it is your ONLY way to deal with things. Polls? What polls? I don't need to live in Alice to know when someone compares Melissa ISD to Alice ISD as being similar they are completely wrong and out of touch. Instead of name calling like a small child please tell us all how Alice and Melissa are similar. Your stupid argument against Alice needing a 10k seat stadium was that Alice was 4A. Alice has a bigger enrollment than Melissa. Refugio is a town of 3k with a stadium that seats 4.7k. Everything doesn't always fit whatever stupid fantasy land template you use. Alice's current stadium seats 7k and whenever they have big playoff games there they have to add bleachers all down the sidelines from the 0 to the 0 on BOTH sides of the stadium. Will Alice fill up a 10k seat stadium every single week? No. But that potential is there so you build a big enough stadium so you aren't having to add wooden bleachers for big or playoff games or having to use other program's bigger stadiums to fit the playoff crowds we get in Alice. 10k is not a big deal. That's still smaller than Buc or Cabaniss. Maybe it's a big deal where you're from and nobody goes to games but that's not the case down here. You act like we're asking for a 20k stadium.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Dec 1, 2023 22:24:10 GMT -6
More name calling. Why? Because you know you are dead wrong about something that I pointed out and it is your ONLY way to deal with things. Polls? What polls? I don't need to live in Alice to know when someone compares Melissa ISD to Alice ISD as being similar they are completely wrong and out of touch. Instead of name calling like a small child please tell us all how Alice and Melissa are similar. Your stupid argument against Alice needing a 10k seat stadium was that Alice was 4A. Alice has a bigger enrollment than Melissa. Refugio is a town of 3k with a stadium that seats 4.7k. Everything doesn't always fit whatever stupid fantasy land template you use. Alice's current stadium seats 7k and whenever they have big playoff games there they have to add bleachers all down the sidelines from the 0 to the 0 on BOTH sides of the stadium. Will Alice fill up a 10k seat stadium every single week? No. But that potential is there so you build a big enough stadium so you aren't having to add wooden bleachers for big or playoff games or having to use other program's bigger stadiums to fit the playoff crowds we get in Alice. 10k is not a big deal. That's still smaller than Buc or Cabaniss. Maybe it's a big deal where you're from and nobody goes to games but that's not the case down here. You act like we're asking for a 20k stadium. OK chino You win Alice has a bigger enrollment than Melissa and Alice packs the stands better than any other team in the region. Fair enough? Happy?
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Post by sotex on Dec 1, 2023 22:32:17 GMT -6
More name calling. Why? Because you know you are dead wrong about something that I pointed out and it is your ONLY way to deal with things. Polls? What polls? I don't need to live in Alice to know when someone compares Melissa ISD to Alice ISD as being similar they are completely wrong and out of touch. Instead of name calling like a small child please tell us all how Alice and Melissa are similar. Your stupid argument against Alice needing a 10k seat stadium was that Alice was 4A. Alice has a bigger enrollment than Melissa. Refugio is a town of 3k with a stadium that seats 4.7k. Everything doesn't always fit whatever stupid fantasy land template you use. Alice's current stadium seats 7k and whenever they have big playoff games there they have to add bleachers all down the sidelines from the 0 to the 0 on BOTH sides of the stadium. Will Alice fill up a 10k seat stadium every single week? No. But that potential is there so you build a big enough stadium so you aren't having to add wooden bleachers for big or playoff games or having to use other program's bigger stadiums to fit the playoff crowds we get in Alice. 10k is not a big deal. That's still smaller than Buc or Cabaniss. Maybe it's a big deal where you're from and nobody goes to games but that's not the case down here. You act like we're asking for a 20k stadium. Chino sorry but you're wrong. Alice doesn't fill up the stadium now, and Alice is declining in population . Melissa is having a huge growth spurt, and their median income is much higher than Alice. Yes Alice needs a new stadium, but you can't compare Alice with Melissa.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Dec 1, 2023 22:45:46 GMT -6
Your stupid argument against Alice needing a 10k seat stadium was that Alice was 4A. Alice has a bigger enrollment than Melissa. Refugio is a town of 3k with a stadium that seats 4.7k. Everything doesn't always fit whatever stupid fantasy land template you use. Alice's current stadium seats 7k and whenever they have big playoff games there they have to add bleachers all down the sidelines from the 0 to the 0 on BOTH sides of the stadium. Will Alice fill up a 10k seat stadium every single week? No. But that potential is there so you build a big enough stadium so you aren't having to add wooden bleachers for big or playoff games or having to use other program's bigger stadiums to fit the playoff crowds we get in Alice. 10k is not a big deal. That's still smaller than Buc or Cabaniss. Maybe it's a big deal where you're from and nobody goes to games but that's not the case down here. You act like we're asking for a 20k stadium. Chino sorry but you're wrong. Alice doesn't fill up the stadium now, and Alice is declining in population . Melissa is having a huge growth spurt, and medium income is much higher than Alice. Yes Alice needs a new stadium, but you can't compare Alice with Melissa. Man I completely agree the Coyotes need and deserve a new stadium. I just don't see what on that seats 5k on the home side and 3-3.5k on the visitor isn't enough. I mean come on, you don't even play playoff games at home for the most part after round 1 most of the time. With permanent steel endzone bleachers that 8k seat stadium I just described above becomes 9k seats!
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Dec 1, 2023 22:49:26 GMT -6
Your stupid argument against Alice needing a 10k seat stadium was that Alice was 4A. Alice has a bigger enrollment than Melissa. Refugio is a town of 3k with a stadium that seats 4.7k. Everything doesn't always fit whatever stupid fantasy land template you use. Alice's current stadium seats 7k and whenever they have big playoff games there they have to add bleachers all down the sidelines from the 0 to the 0 on BOTH sides of the stadium. Will Alice fill up a 10k seat stadium every single week? No. But that potential is there so you build a big enough stadium so you aren't having to add wooden bleachers for big or playoff games or having to use other program's bigger stadiums to fit the playoff crowds we get in Alice. 10k is not a big deal. That's still smaller than Buc or Cabaniss. Maybe it's a big deal where you're from and nobody goes to games but that's not the case down here. You act like we're asking for a 20k stadium. Chino sorry but you're wrong. Alice doesn't fill up the stadium now, and Alice is declining in population . Melissa is having a huge growth spurt, and medium income is much higher than Alice. Yes Alice needs a new stadium, but you can't compare Alice with Melissa. I'm not trying to compare Alice to Melissa as far as future growth. I am talking about the need for a stadium and 10k not being some ridiculous expectation. Like I already pointed out at least when we have big games or playoff games bleachers are added on both sides of the stadium from the endzone to the endzone. Adding that to an already 7k seat stadium and you think 10k is too much to ask for? Sorry I disagree. 10k isn't as big as some of you are making it out to be. That's basically the size of Cabaniss which seats 9.5k.
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