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Post by picodegallo on Nov 30, 2023 10:23:02 GMT -6
You notice Kingsville doesn't host playoffs that much if at all either. I think part of it is Region IV is now very spread out compared to the day when it went down from Austin to between Victoria and El Campo down to the RGV and back west to Del Rio. Now some of the teams are closer to Waco to the north and even into western most part of East Texas which used to be Region II or III in some of the classes. And since most of the Coastal Bend schools are now linked with the RGV schools from 5A down, we are eliminating several valley schools who used to use venues in this area to meet up in the playoffs because they are not making the playoffs. The only ones using our Coastal Bend venues in the first and second rounds are the 5A's and 6A's for the most part. Plus in the first round, 5A and 6A district champs and runners up get first round hosting rights as a reward. So that eliminates other opportunities too. But like noted by Coyotes 2018, the coaches want turf stadiums this time of the year too. They don't want to be caught off guard with an unpredicted rain on Friday or even a damp/foggy night that we start getting in November. Same goes with Baseball and Softball now. I hate baseball being played on turf, but because coaches most of the time go with best of three, they want to make sure they can get those games in and the turf fields pretty much insure it. Alice does need a new stadium.... I mean even the Bronx had to say goodbye to Yankee Stadium because it got to the point it couldn't salvaged and some day Fenway and Wrigley might meet the same fate. ya good point. kingsville doesnt get any love anymore either. i like cochinos idea of a unique staduim here. something that alice peeps will be proud of and talk about. calallens stadium gets plenty of use in playoffs as well as cabiness. so something different could help. I think the thing that works in Calallen's favor is the easy access from Interstate 37/69/ US 77 . That's why with the last bond that failed in May they wanted to turf the baseball and softball fields too. Robstown's baseball and softball fields have been getting good use since they turfed them. The biggest events here however have been the Region and Band area contests for 4A. You have schools from as far as way as South Austin to Houston and the RGV for those contests and easily for the area contest which is the contest that sends the bands to state, you have 8000 to 10000 people at that stadium for that Saturday. I know the owner of Chic Fil A right across the high school and she breaks her sales records on that day in October the last three years. So yea, it's a big pay day for the area businesses for sure.
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Nov 30, 2023 10:51:46 GMT -6
Look up West Texas A&M's football stadium that was just built a few years ago for $38 million. Seats between 8.5-10k and looks bigger than it is because they split it up to have 2 decks. I wouldnt mind something like that because the double deck look would replace the uniqueness of the current endzone seating. The uniqueness is my biggest worry. I want Alice to keep the unique atmosphere the games currently have.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Nov 30, 2023 11:52:52 GMT -6
Come on man, Seguin's Matador stadium is 8210 and you just said the other day how nice that one is and now 8k is not enough? Alice is currently just a tad under 7k. Is Alice selling out currently for games with people being turned away? Simple question that deserves a simple answer and not in any way meant as something for argument. Steele & Clemens are both 6a schools and our stadium doesn't even seat 6k right now and we make it work. smdh Yes it would be nice to have a stadium like the one in Seguin but why spend all that money when what you have works ok except for 1 or two big ball games each year like Steele/Clemens, Steele/Judson, Judson/Clemens type games when they then bring in extra seating to make it about 7500. Sorry, but I cannot see a 4a - small 5a team needing a stadium bigger than 8K or maybe a little bit more especially if the home side is 5k and the visitor is 3k. It's not that simple. A bigger stadium will get us OTHER PROGRAMS playoff games and neutral site matchups as well. I literally already said that's why Alice needs to go big with this. And I said Seguin's stadium was nice for $13.6 but very basic. Alice needs something unique to match the uniqueness of the current stadium and its endzone seating. You're putting too much emphasis on it only being a 4A program. There's borderline 6A programs around here that don't bring as many fans as Alice. I completely understand that Alice is not your normal 4a program when it comes to fan attendance. And that is exactly why I asked if the Coyotes were still selling out games like they used to? I completely understand it would be nice to attract outside PO games to Alice with a new stadium but those games DO NOT pay off the extra millions a 10k seat stadium would cost.....they simply don't. Most really nice stadiums rent for between $1500-$3000 plus 10-20% of ticket sales depending on the venue. Big HS football stadiums are NOT money makers in any way, they are money pits. What PO games are you looking at where an 8k seat stadium would not work for? I'd say that is plenty big for 95% or R4 5a or even 6a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round games. Alice is certainly long overdue for an upgraded stadium. But, what is wanted and what is actually needed are two very different things and most tax payers that vote on it recognize that.
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Post by picodegallo on Nov 30, 2023 11:54:40 GMT -6
Look up West Texas A&M's football stadium that was just built a few years ago for $38 million. Seats between 8.5-10k and looks bigger than it is because they split it up to have 2 decks. I wouldnt mind something like that because the double deck look would replace the uniqueness of the current endzone seating. The uniqueness is my biggest worry. I want Alice to keep the unique atmosphere the games currently have. TAMUK should get that same design done to relace Javenlina Stadium. They are about to get their butts kicked by UTRGV and they haven't played one down because they are building a sweet football training facility as the first phase for their new program. Something like $45 million just for that facility
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Post by Clemensbuff on Nov 30, 2023 11:57:34 GMT -6
Look up West Texas A&M's football stadium that was just built a few years ago for $38 million. Seats between 8.5-10k and looks bigger than it is because they split it up to have 2 decks. I wouldnt mind something like that because the double deck look would replace the uniqueness of the current endzone seating. The uniqueness is my biggest worry. I want Alice to keep the unique atmosphere the games currently have. That stadium was completed over 4 years ago. Cost of construction is up at least 65% since then and today would cost at least $60m to build EXACTLY the same thing today. Likely more!
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Nov 30, 2023 12:43:22 GMT -6
It's not that simple. A bigger stadium will get us OTHER PROGRAMS playoff games and neutral site matchups as well. I literally already said that's why Alice needs to go big with this. And I said Seguin's stadium was nice for $13.6 but very basic. Alice needs something unique to match the uniqueness of the current stadium and its endzone seating. You're putting too much emphasis on it only being a 4A program. There's borderline 6A programs around here that don't bring as many fans as Alice. I completely understand that Alice is not your normal 4a program when it comes to fan attendance. And that is exactly why I asked if the Coyotes were still selling out games like they used to? I completely understand it would be nice to attract outside PO games to Alice with a new stadium but those games DO NOT pay off the extra millions a 10k seat stadium would cost.....they simply don't. Most really nice stadiums rent for between $1500-$3000 plus 10-20% of ticket sales depending on the venue. Big HS football stadiums are NOT money makers in any way, they are money pits. What PO games are you looking at where an 8k seat stadium would not work for? I'd say that is plenty big for 95% or R4 5a or even 6a 1st, 2nd, or 3rd round games. Alice is certainly long overdue for an upgraded stadium. But, what is wanted and what is actually needed are two very different things and most tax payers that vote on it recognize that. The current stadium seats 7k. Suggesting a stadium that seats 8.5k-10k like West Texas A&M isn't some huge leap. You act like we're recommending a 35k seat stadium.
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Nov 30, 2023 12:45:14 GMT -6
Look up West Texas A&M's football stadium that was just built a few years ago for $38 million. Seats between 8.5-10k and looks bigger than it is because they split it up to have 2 decks. I wouldnt mind something like that because the double deck look would replace the uniqueness of the current endzone seating. The uniqueness is my biggest worry. I want Alice to keep the unique atmosphere the games currently have. That stadium was completed over 4 years ago. Cost of construction is up at least 65% since then and today would cost at least $60m to build EXACTLY the same thing today. Likely more! Jeebus Prist man. Go start a Cibolo Steele thread instead of being a Debbie Downer in an Alice thread. Like seriously, your team is still in the playoffs and you never talk about them.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Nov 30, 2023 13:45:23 GMT -6
That stadium was completed over 4 years ago. Cost of construction is up at least 65% since then and today would cost at least $60m to build EXACTLY the same thing today. Likely more! Jeebus Prist man. Go start a Cibolo Steele thread instead of being a Debbie Downer in an Alice thread. Like seriously, your team is still in the playoffs and you never talk about them. I talk about them plenty but not here on a thread about Alice or really on this forum. There are other forums that talk much more about 6a. And, I'm a realist and know what my team's limit is this year and they've just about hit that. I expect them to put up a great game this week and maybe win another regional title but that is where the road ends this year. What am I being a downer about? Because I'm telling the truth about the cost of construction today versus over 4 years ago? It's not being a downer, it's being realistic about things. And Alice doesn't need a 10k seat stadium even though in your mind you think they do. I bet the Alice ISD tax payers will think differently if a $30m stadium comes up for a vote.
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stp51
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Post by stp51 on Nov 30, 2023 15:17:19 GMT -6
A stadium with some sort of shade to block the sun/rain would be cool…
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Nov 30, 2023 16:00:44 GMT -6
Jeebus Prist man. Go start a Cibolo Steele thread instead of being a Debbie Downer in an Alice thread. Like seriously, your team is still in the playoffs and you never talk about them. I talk about them plenty but not here on a thread about Alice or really on this forum. There are other forums that talk much more about 6a. And, I'm a realist and know what my team's limit is this year and they've just about hit that. I expect them to put up a great game this week and maybe win another regional title but that is where the road ends this year. What am I being a downer about? Because I'm telling the truth about the cost of construction today versus over 4 years ago? It's not being a downer, it's being realistic about things. And Alice doesn't need a 10k seat stadium even though in your mind you think they do. I bet the Alice ISD tax payers will think differently if a $30m stadium comes up for a vote. Does Alice need a 10k seat stadium for the CC King game? No. Does Alice need a 10k stadium for big games and playoffs? Yes it would be beneficial. Buc is 11.5k. Cabaniss is 9.5k. You act like 10k is a ridiculous amount.
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Nov 30, 2023 16:02:38 GMT -6
A stadium with some sort of shade to block the sun/rain would be cool… A canopy would be cool and give more meaning to the Skydome nickname.
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BandidoNB
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Post by BandidoNB on Nov 30, 2023 17:17:14 GMT -6
Good luck on getting tax payers to approve just a stadium proposal. If Prosper iSD couldn’t pass their stadium bond, I have a hard time believing Alice could. They would have to add more propositions to include facility upgrades for security, maybe a Fine Arts Center or others to entice voters to pass the bond. Prosper was asking for $50m for a 12k seat stadium. I don't blame the tax payers a damn bit for voting it down Actually they were requesting $94 million for an 8,000 seat stadium. Even me, a stadium fan, thinks it’s way too much.
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BandidoNB
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Post by BandidoNB on Nov 30, 2023 17:31:49 GMT -6
Appreciate the input but Prosper has nothing to do with Alice. And I'm pretty sure there other things included not just the stadium. Chino, I believe that sports facilities must be broken out separate now on any bond votes. It cannot all be lumped in together with new schools, renovations and technology upgrades, etc. I believe BandidoNB has said this on this forum before?? Yes, any stadium renovation over 2,000 seats using bond dollars has to be approved in a separate vote. I really dislike this. NBISD recently had a bond narrowly fail that had $20 million set aside to BOTH Unicorn Stadium (capacity 10,000-11,000 w/ new 3,800 sf press box) and a new 7,000 seat stadium for future-Long Creek HS. I don’t think it would’ve been unreasonable to hack it all together as one bond, since $20 million is not excessive for what was being proposed. It will prevent future equity issues. I know we disagree on this. It’s the first bond in decades that has failed, while everything else passed. NBISD even recently passed a tax rate increase vote. But now stadium bonds are being shot down statewide. Some of them exorbitant. Others were reasonable. Can Alice pass a stadium bond in this environment? I hope so. Seguin’s stadium was one of the last bonds passed that DIDNT require a separate stadium vote. Good luck to Alice ISD. And I hope NBISD tries again to at least renovate Unicorn Stadium. I know Abilene ISD did a stadium renovation this year with reserves, bypassing a bond vote. Is this the future of stadium renovations? Pulling $5-10 million from reserves is possible for some school districts.
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Post by picodegallo on Nov 30, 2023 18:22:37 GMT -6
Chino, I believe that sports facilities must be broken out separate now on any bond votes. It cannot all be lumped in together with new schools, renovations and technology upgrades, etc. I believe BandidoNB has said this on this forum before?? Yes, any stadium renovation over 2,000 seats using bond dollars has to be approved in a separate vote. I really dislike this. NBISD recently had a bond narrowly fail that had $20 million set aside to BOTH Unicorn Stadium (capacity 10,000-11,000 w/ new 3,800 sf press box) and a new 7,000 seat stadium for future-Long Creek HS. I don’t think it would’ve been unreasonable to hack it all together as one bond, since $20 million is not excessive for what was being proposed. It will prevent future equity issues. I know we disagree on this. It’s the first bond in decades that has failed, while everything else passed. NBISD even recently passed a tax rate increase vote. But now stadium bonds are being shot down statewide. Some of them exorbitant. Others were reasonable. Can Alice pass a stadium bond in this environment? I hope so. Seguin’s stadium was one of the last bonds passed that DIDNT require a separate stadium vote. Good luck to Alice ISD. And I hope NBISD tries again to at least renovate Unicorn Stadium. I know Abilene ISD did a stadium renovation this year with reserves, bypassing a bond vote. Is this the future of stadium renovations? Pulling $5-10 million from reserves is possible for some school districts. I think in a few years as these bonds for new stadiums or significant upgrades start failing more in parts of the state which have more political influence, they will revise the law and go back to the one ballot if an ISD choses to present it this way. It's ridiculous for simple renovations you couldn't put it on the ballot with renovations you might be doing with academic facilities , especially if those renovations help the district comply with ADA. It's also dumb that you could include an athletic venue either from the ground up or renovations if that venue has a dual purpose for athletics and academics, or it seats under 1000 spectators. But the law was in response to all the ridiculous bling you see now at the newer stadiums especially in the DFW and Houston areas. But when some of the up and coming burbs in those areas can't get their new shiny things passed, they will put pressure on the lawmakers and it will change. It might take a few years, but it will happen. A compromise would be if a new venue is being built from the ground up, it should require voter approval on a separate ballot. But if it's for simple maintaince or upgrades up to a certain amount, it should go on a regular ballot with academic things. Our bond for $12 million that failed at Calallen, only $6 million or so was going to the football stadium for a new pressbox with ADA access, new restrooms to bring up to ADA requirements, new concession stands to ADA, new scoreboard and fencing upgrades. The rest was going to the baseball and softball fields for turf and other upgrades too. But if you had read some of the anti everything people on Facebook or the Next door App, you would've thought we were going to build a $94 million like Prosper project. And most of these people were over 65 too meaning they have their fricken tax rates frozen and the ISD could've passed a Billion in bonds requiring hundreds of dollars in tax increases, and their property rates would stay the same until they either moved or died.
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Nov 30, 2023 18:39:36 GMT -6
Yes, any stadium renovation over 2,000 seats using bond dollars has to be approved in a separate vote. I really dislike this. NBISD recently had a bond narrowly fail that had $20 million set aside to BOTH Unicorn Stadium (capacity 10,000-11,000 w/ new 3,800 sf press box) and a new 7,000 seat stadium for future-Long Creek HS. I don’t think it would’ve been unreasonable to hack it all together as one bond, since $20 million is not excessive for what was being proposed. It will prevent future equity issues. I know we disagree on this. It’s the first bond in decades that has failed, while everything else passed. NBISD even recently passed a tax rate increase vote. But now stadium bonds are being shot down statewide. Some of them exorbitant. Others were reasonable. Can Alice pass a stadium bond in this environment? I hope so. Seguin’s stadium was one of the last bonds passed that DIDNT require a separate stadium vote. Good luck to Alice ISD. And I hope NBISD tries again to at least renovate Unicorn Stadium. I know Abilene ISD did a stadium renovation this year with reserves, bypassing a bond vote. Is this the future of stadium renovations? Pulling $5-10 million from reserves is possible for some school districts. I think in a few years as these bonds for new stadiums or significant upgrades start failing more in parts of the state which have more political influence, they will revise the law and go back to the one ballot if an ISD choses to present it this way. It's ridiculous for simple renovations you couldn't put it on the ballot with renovations you might be doing with academic facilities , especially if those renovations help the district comply with ADA. It's also dumb that you could include an athletic venue either from the ground up or renovations if that venue has a dual purpose for athletics and academics, or it seats under 1000 spectators. But the law was in response to all the ridiculous bling you see now at the newer stadiums especially in the DFW and Houston areas. But when some of the up and coming burbs in those areas can't get their new shiny things passed, they will put pressure on the lawmakers and it will change. It might take a few years, but it will happen. A compromise would be if a new venue is being built from the ground up, it should require voter approval on a separate ballot. But if it's for simple maintaince or upgrades up to a certain amount, it should go on a regular ballot with academic things. Our bond for $12 million that failed at Calallen, only $6 million or so was going to the football stadium for a new pressbox with ADA access, new restrooms to bring up to ADA requirements, new concession stands to ADA, new scoreboard and fencing upgrades. The rest was going to the baseball and softball fields for turf and other upgrades too. But if you had read some of the anti everything people on Facebook or the Next door App, you would've thought we were going to build a $94 million like Prosper project. And most of these people were over 65 too meaning they have their fricken tax rates frozen and the ISD could've passed a Billion in bonds requiring hundreds of dollars in tax increases, and their property rates would stay the same until they either moved or died. So what's the solution when these bonds fail and it's actually something that is really needed? Alice needs a new stadium because of safety issues that stem from having a 76 year old stadium not because someone just decided they felt like having a new stadium.
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