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Post by footballhoodini on Dec 20, 2011 16:09:40 GMT -6
Oh, believe me when I say I considered it. I also saw a Refugio team with more players on the sidelines then a lot of 4a teams carry. Now, I know that a bunch of them were freshman but those freshman were probably better then several of the teams that this coach BLEW OUT this year so why can't you get your game conditioning done Monday thru Friday at practice? Also, why did this coach run a reverse and 2 or 3 pass plays in one of his playoff games on the last series of the game and call a timeout with 2 seconds left so he could score a TD on the last play of the game when already up 3 scores??? Absolutely no reason for BS like that man! I saw them keep their starters in the game against Lexington in the semi finals until the end.......check the score on that game. I know you have to have your kids conditioning in to be able to play 4 full quarters. But, like I said, why not do it running a game clock at practice against all your backups when they are obviously better then the teams you beat up on 80+ to 6 and 90+ to 7??? the freshman might be better, but they're running the same system on both sides of the ball. i would think playing against different systems for longer periods of time would be more beneficial - no matter the level of athleticism of the opponent. I'm guessing he ran the reverse because his offense had possession for less than 10 minutes the entire game and wanted to get in an extra practice play. he knew three rivers wasn't going to lay down and figured it would be beneficial if he tried something in a live-game scenario nearing the end of a half. that game was not a blowout, and the lexington game was within 2 or 3 scores in the 3rd quarter.
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Post by footballhoodini on Dec 20, 2011 16:12:35 GMT -6
No, it did not help them in the end... #1 Because if you are running the field and scoring after no more than 2-3 offensive plays each time you have the ball that does not help the kids with stamina one bit. #2 If your defense is stopping their offense most of the time on 3 and outs....then your defense doesn't get help with their stamina either. How is that helping them in the long run with the bigger games? The offense and defense neither one really had that much more time on the field during regular season. Heck most of their games were played with a running clock in the second half. I don't agree with maliciously running the scores up on anyone...BUT are you supposed to teach the kids "ok, once we get 40 points ahead of them, just take a knee"?? There is a fine line to be drawn here....but where exactly is that line? None of us know, but everone of us has been to, played in, or watched a game where the "underdogs" made their adjustments and either won or came close to winning after being down by a lot of points. So you can't count them out....you have to be ready for anything. I do wish to congratulate the Bobcats on winning state this year and I hope that all of the kids realize that it was within their reach the whole year. You just had to believe in yourselves and play 48 minutes of ball on the field each and every game. Congrats. running on and off the field every other play might help them with stamina. lol maybe if cal played their starters 3 quarters they'd have won state
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Post by CC_Varmints on Dec 20, 2011 16:12:39 GMT -6
Cisco 35 Refugio 36 Final Refugio was lucky that time ran out on Cisco. cisco ran out of time? it's not like they had the ball down at the 5 with no time left.
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Post by calcatfan on Dec 20, 2011 22:02:18 GMT -6
[/quote] maybe if cal played their starters 3 quarters they'd have won state[/quote] And that is relevant to this conversation how? The Calallen game and the Refugio game are two different games, in two different classes, on two different weekends, in two different rounds of the playoffs...and had two different outcomes as we all know. I have never once compared Refugio or their team to Calallen or visa-versa...no need and no point in it. Yeah the Cal game at this point is a "woulda, coulda, shoulda"...but it happened and that is that no excuses, no worries. Point is Refugio went and won a state championship and they should be proud! Being that I am a football fan from south texas and know numerous people from Refugio I am very happy for them and proud of them!
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Post by Clemensbuff on Dec 21, 2011 7:49:34 GMT -6
Oh, believe me when I say I considered it. I also saw a Refugio team with more players on the sidelines then a lot of 4a teams carry. Now, I know that a bunch of them were freshman but those freshman were probably better then several of the teams that this coach BLEW OUT this year so why can't you get your game conditioning done Monday thru Friday at practice? Also, why did this coach run a reverse and 2 or 3 pass plays in one of his playoff games on the last series of the game and call a timeout with 2 seconds left so he could score a TD on the last play of the game when already up 3 scores??? Absolutely no reason for BS like that man! I saw them keep their starters in the game against Lexington in the semi finals until the end.......check the score on that game. I know you have to have your kids conditioning in to be able to play 4 full quarters. But, like I said, why not do it running a game clock at practice against all your backups when they are obviously better then the teams you beat up on 80+ to 6 and 90+ to 7??? the freshman might be better, but they're running the same system on both sides of the ball. i would think playing against different systems for longer periods of time would be more beneficial - no matter the level of athleticism of the opponent. I'm guessing he ran the reverse because his offense had possession for less than 10 minutes the entire game and wanted to get in an extra practice play. he knew three rivers wasn't going to lay down and figured it would be beneficial if he tried something in a live-game scenario nearing the end of a half. that game was not a blowout, and the lexington game was within 2 or 3 scores in the 3rd quarter. We will agree to disagree. My position will not change one bit on how I feel. Keeping 1st teamers in the game when you are up 40+ points in the 3rd quarter to me is just plain wrong. Calling two timeouts, running a reverse and two pass plays on the last drive of a playoff game when up 3 TDs is JUST PLAIN WRONG! Had one of their star players been seriously injured during one of these regular season blowouts, or playoff 'run ups', there'd be a ton of pissed off Refugio parents and fans..........THAT IS GUARANTEED! He played his cards and got lucky that nothing like that happened!
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Post by footballhoodini on Dec 21, 2011 13:32:24 GMT -6
cisco ran out of time? it's not like they had the ball down at the 5 with no time left. lol it's not like I'm lying or something it's true
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Post by footballhoodini on Dec 21, 2011 13:35:09 GMT -6
And that is relevant to this conversation how? The Calallen game and the Refugio game are two different games, in two different classes, on two different weekends, in two different rounds of the playoffs...and had two different outcomes as we all know. I have never once compared Refugio or their team to Calallen or visa-versa...no need and no point in it. Yeah the Cal game at this point is a "woulda, coulda, shoulda"...but it happened and that is that no excuses, no worries. Point is Refugio went and won a state championship and they should be proud! Being that I am a football fan from south texas and know numerous people from Refugio I am very happy for them and proud of them! well i'm just saying that herring's been there 5 years and the first year he decides to play all out he wins it all. danahole's been there since before GP invented football and he like what.. 1-9 in that semi round? in this sense, you're right - there's no comparison.
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Post by footballhoodini on Dec 21, 2011 13:40:06 GMT -6
the freshman might be better, but they're running the same system on both sides of the ball. i would think playing against different systems for longer periods of time would be more beneficial - no matter the level of athleticism of the opponent. I'm guessing he ran the reverse because his offense had possession for less than 10 minutes the entire game and wanted to get in an extra practice play. he knew three rivers wasn't going to lay down and figured it would be beneficial if he tried something in a live-game scenario nearing the end of a half. that game was not a blowout, and the lexington game was within 2 or 3 scores in the 3rd quarter. We will agree to disagree. My position will not change one bit on how I feel. Keeping 1st teamers in the game when you are up 40+ points in the 3rd quarter to me is just plain wrong. Calling two timeouts, running a reverse and two pass plays on the last drive of a playoff game when up 3 TDs is JUST PLAIN WRONG! Had one of their star players been seriously injured during one of these regular season blowouts, or playoff 'run ups', there'd be a ton of pissed off Refugio parents and fans..........THAT IS GUARANTEED! He played his cards and got lucky that nothing like that happened! here's something comparable. there was a guy that wrote an article in the cisco paper after the title game who talked (more like b**ched and moaned) about morals and how it was wrong to "keep starters in a game in which the obvious victor is apparent." by this logic, as soon as refugio was up 14-0 early in the first quarter in district games, herring should start subbing in freshman because there's no way the other team was scoring any more than that...
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Post by Clemensbuff on Dec 21, 2011 14:09:55 GMT -6
We will agree to disagree. My position will not change one bit on how I feel. Keeping 1st teamers in the game when you are up 40+ points in the 3rd quarter to me is just plain wrong. Calling two timeouts, running a reverse and two pass plays on the last drive of a playoff game when up 3 TDs is JUST PLAIN WRONG! Had one of their star players been seriously injured during one of these regular season blowouts, or playoff 'run ups', there'd be a ton of pissed off Refugio parents and fans..........THAT IS GUARANTEED! He played his cards and got lucky that nothing like that happened! here's something comparable. there was a guy that wrote an article in the cisco paper after the title game who talked (more like b**ched and moaned) about morals and how it was wrong to "keep starters in a game in which the obvious victor is apparent." by this logic, as soon as refugio was up 14-0 early in the first quarter in district games, herring should start subbing in freshman because there's no way the other team was scoring any more than that... OK, now you are 'twisting' it just a bit. Nobody said anything about subbing with a 14-0 lead early in a game even though I'm very sure he could have in several games this year and still won comfortably. Big difference between 14-0 in the 1st and 50+ - 0 at the half compadre!
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Post by C5_96 on Dec 21, 2011 17:24:24 GMT -6
And that is relevant to this conversation how? The Calallen game and the Refugio game are two different games, in two different classes, on two different weekends, in two different rounds of the playoffs...and had two different outcomes as we all know. I have never once compared Refugio or their team to Calallen or visa-versa...no need and no point in it. Yeah the Cal game at this point is a "woulda, coulda, shoulda"...but it happened and that is that no excuses, no worries. Point is Refugio went and won a state championship and they should be proud! Being that I am a football fan from south texas and know numerous people from Refugio I am very happy for them and proud of them! well i'm just saying that herring's been there 5 years and the first year he decides to play all out he wins it all. danahole's been there since before GP invented football and he like what.. 1-9 in that semi round? in this sense, you're right - there's no comparison. I've always wondered what team Calallen crushed that you supported...your little heart will mend some day, I hope.
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Post by footballhoodini on Dec 22, 2011 0:24:55 GMT -6
well i'm just saying that herring's been there 5 years and the first year he decides to play all out he wins it all. danahole's been there since before GP invented football and he like what.. 1-9 in that semi round? in this sense, you're right - there's no comparison. I've always wondered what team Calallen crushed that you supported...your little heart will mend some day, I hope. I have no ties on the upside or downside from cal allen, but i did hear danahole referred to as such on the old board, so it stuck. I know facts may sting, but try to be a little objective - and the fact is, well im not too sure what that record is for sure but i think its 1-9 is it?
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Post by footballhoodini on Dec 22, 2011 0:27:41 GMT -6
here's something comparable. there was a guy that wrote an article in the cisco paper after the title game who talked (more like b**ched and moaned) about morals and how it was wrong to "keep starters in a game in which the obvious victor is apparent." by this logic, as soon as refugio was up 14-0 early in the first quarter in district games, herring should start subbing in freshman because there's no way the other team was scoring any more than that... OK, now you are 'twisting' it just a bit. Nobody said anything about subbing with a 14-0 lead early in a game even though I'm very sure he could have in several games this year and still won comfortably. Big difference between 14-0 in the 1st and 50+ - 0 at the half compadre! i don't think there's a big difference at all if there was no way the other team was going to score. the only difference is he doesn't get to leave his starters in on offense if he subbed at 14-0, which was his gripe to begin with.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Dec 22, 2011 6:58:33 GMT -6
OK, now you are 'twisting' it just a bit. Nobody said anything about subbing with a 14-0 lead early in a game even though I'm very sure he could have in several games this year and still won comfortably. Big difference between 14-0 in the 1st and 50+ - 0 at the half compadre! i don't think there's a big difference at all if there was no way the other team was going to score. the only difference is he doesn't get to leave his starters in on offense if he subbed at 14-0, which was his gripe to begin with. Uh.....yes, there is a big difference between pulling all starters at half when it is 40 or 50-0 vs leaving them in through 3 quarters until it is 70+ to zip! If you cannot see that, then sorry for you. Clemens had some teams back in the late 90s that played in a HORRIBLE SA district. In fact, for two straight years they didn't get scored on, or if they did, it may have been 1 TD in those district games. Coach Lehnhoff started substituting as early as the end of the 1st quarter when the games were 28-0 / 35-0. He also allowed a 'running clock' in the 2nd half of all those games. I can vividly remember him getting on a 2nd or 3rd team RB that scored a TD late in the game that made the score 56-0. I don't believe he chewed on him for scoring but more for taking the play outside when it was a run up the middle. He was doing all he could to not score anymore by running simple dive plays up the middle and chewing up the clock with some 1st downs. Coach Jinks subbed some starters this year as early as the 1st quarter with a 13-0 lead and in several games in the 2nd quarter with leads as small as 21-0 or 21-7. He knew that his team had the other team completely outclassed as far as athlete to athlete and there was no need to run stats up on them. So, he starts subbing and getting young kids lots of valuable playing time as well as working on some 'out of the box' stuff he may use later down the line in the season. It is called Class and you either have it or you don't......IT IS THAT SIMPLE! Steele won the 5a D2 title last year and did NOT run it up on anyone and there were many games they could have! They made it back to the title game this year and could have absolutely blown some teams out but instead got a lot of sophs and even a few freshman valuable PT so that next year these kids can start the season off with a lot more confidence then what they would have if they had not received PT this year. You can color it any way you like but the bottom line there is absolute no reason to beat teams 80+ & 90+ to 7. There is absolutely no way in Hell you can justify running 2 pass plays & a reverse, and calling a TO w/ 2 seconds left in a playoff game to score on the final play of the game when you are up 3 scores. THERE IS NOT EXPLANATION TO JUSTIFY BS LIKE THAT! Like I've said before, congrats to the Bobcat kids on their championship..........too bad their classless coach gets one as well because he damn sure doesn't deserve to be called a champion!
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Post by C5_96 on Dec 22, 2011 9:10:33 GMT -6
I've always wondered what team Calallen crushed that you supported...your little heart will mend some day, I hope. I have no ties on the upside or downside from cal allen, but i did hear danahole referred to as such on the old board, so it stuck. I know facts may sting, but try to be a little objective - and the fact is, well im not too sure what that record is for sure but i think its 1-9 is it? I guess I'm as objective as you are mature.
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Post by gpjohn on Dec 22, 2011 9:21:52 GMT -6
i don't think there's a big difference at all if there was no way the other team was going to score. the only difference is he doesn't get to leave his starters in on offense if he subbed at 14-0, which was his gripe to begin with. Uh.....yes, there is a big difference between pulling all starters at half when it is 40 or 50-0 vs leaving them in through 3 quarters until it is 70+ to zip! If you cannot see that, then sorry for you. Clemens had some teams back in the late 90s that played in a HORRIBLE SA district. In fact, for two straight years they didn't get scored on, or if they did, it may have been 1 TD in those district games. Coach Lehnhoff started substituting as early as the end of the 1st quarter when the games were 28-0 / 35-0. He also allowed a 'running clock' in the 2nd half of all those games. I can vividly remember him getting on a 2nd or 3rd team RB that scored a TD late in the game that made the score 56-0. I don't believe he chewed on him for scoring but more for taking the play outside when it was a run up the middle. He was doing all he could to not score anymore by running simple dive plays up the middle and chewing up the clock with some 1st downs. Coach Jinks subbed some starters this year as early as the 1st quarter with a 13-0 lead and in several games in the 2nd quarter with leads as small as 21-0 or 21-7. He knew that his team had the other team completely outclassed as far as athlete to athlete and there was no need to run stats up on them. So, he starts subbing and getting young kids lots of valuable playing time as well as working on some 'out of the box' stuff he may use later down the line in the season. It is called Class and you either have it or you don't......IT IS THAT SIMPLE! Steele won the 5a D2 title last year and did NOT run it up on anyone and there were many games they could have! They made it back to the title game this year and could have absolutely blown some teams out but instead got a lot of sophs and even a few freshman valuable PT so that next year these kids can start the season off with a lot more confidence then what they would have if they had not received PT this year. You can color it any way you like but the bottom line there is absolute no reason to beat teams 80+ & 90+ to 7. There is absolutely no way in Hell you can justify running 2 pass plays & a reverse, and calling a TO w/ 2 seconds left in a playoff game to score on the final play of the game when you are up 3 scores. THERE IS NOT EXPLANATION TO JUSTIFY BS LIKE THAT! Like I've said before, congrats to the Bobcat kids on their championship..........too bad their classless coach gets one as well because he damn sure doesn't deserve to be called a champion! Could not have said it better myself.
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