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Post by bluecat on Dec 12, 2023 6:07:09 GMT -6
There are a few teams that run that offense at Jerry World in 2023. So in your opinion what are the pros and cons of running that offense?
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Post by bluecat on Dec 12, 2023 6:17:12 GMT -6
Both Franklin and Bellville both run the Slot T offense and are very good teams both offensively and have very good defenses. My opinion is not many colleges run that offense and it could limit some good athletes, especially the quarterbacks.
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Post by wfcoyote on Dec 12, 2023 8:02:34 GMT -6
bluecat if I am a recruiter and see a sucsseful slot-T team, I am going to look at their offensive lineman. If you can’t run the ball in college, you can’t win in college.
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Post by bubbme on Dec 12, 2023 9:33:37 GMT -6
I think one of the major advantages is that you can get by with smaller offensive lineman which is a good part of the reason that it has been used by the service academies.
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Post by flowtowntigers on Dec 12, 2023 10:50:35 GMT -6
Floresville ran the wing T for many years and had success. They key is to have a good defense, if your offense has is having time consuming drives that don't result in points.
Any T offense is not typically high or quick scoring.
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Post by SouthTexasBloodsport on Dec 12, 2023 10:51:32 GMT -6
Both Franklin and Bellville both run the Slot T offense and are very good teams both offensively and have very good defenses. My opinion is not many colleges run that offense and it could limit some good athletes, especially the quarterbacks. Too bad. It's a high school coach's job to win high school games not to worry about running what offense will best give little Johnny a shot at a scholarship.
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Post by warcat82 on Dec 12, 2023 12:45:11 GMT -6
So as someone who learned from some of the best slot t minds, and someone who has defended the slot t, I have no problem giving you pros and cons.
Pros:
In A set (primary set) 8 to 10 plays all look the same. So it's going to cause undisciplined defenses fits all night. If you have a QB that is willing to truly turn his back to the defense like a good slot t offense does, the fakes are harder to see. Boot, waggle, and drop back play action become wide open plays. The 900 series that you will rarely see (90% pass plays) opens the defense up to major plays. What most people see and think of when they see and think of for slot T is about 5% of the actual slot T play book. That's because those coaches know they don't have to use the majority of their playbook to screw with teams. I can guarantee you that those kids know every play in the play book and practice them, but you're not going to see them ran except in extreme emergencies.
Cons: A disciplined defense will rattle them. Turnovers will kill them and make them go off script. Patient non aggressive defenses that watch the ball and slow play everything can be a problem. If you tackle everyone that crosses the line of scrimmage thinking they have the ball, they can't throw the ball from A set, thus forcing them to go to the 900 series which they don't want to do. DO NOT PLAY PISS ON PASS defense... it doesn't work... they want you to stack the box, because that's when they get you. Discipline is what beats them. Don't give them angles to block you. Stack your backers so they can't get to them, and so they can slow play and read who actually has the ball. A good nose that can push the center into the backfield can be great! That keeps the quick side pulling guard or tackle from getting across, it also pushes him into the back of the QB which disrupts the fakes and actual hand off, and potentially has him step on the foot of the QB in case it's a boot or a waggle therefore he falls right there or fumbles the ball when he's hit. For that position you want a fire hydrant type kid. Low center of gravity, broad shoulders, with legs and arms the size of an ox that can squat and bench 500-600 pounds and hasn't been able to clap his hands in 6 years...
The myth that goes with those offenses is that the QB can't throw or play at the next level, and that they don't have kids that can catch, Yada, Yada, yada,... I can say they use the 1s to run spread plays for the defense at most of these schools and they are fast, can throw, can catch, and are hecka athletic.... but why conform when the machine isn't broken... I myself prefer the slot t over the loosie goosie spread...
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Post by bluecat on Dec 12, 2023 13:35:07 GMT -6
So as someone who learned from some of the best slot t minds, and someone who has defended the slot t, I have no problem giving you pros and cons. Pros: In A set (primary set) 8 to 10 plays all look the same. So it's going to cause undisciplined defenses fits all night. If you have a QB that is willing to truly turn his back to the defense like a good slot t offense does, the fakes are harder to see. Boot, waggle, and drop back play action become wide open plays. The 900 series that you will rarely see (90% pass plays) opens the defense up to major plays. What most people see and think of when they see and think of for slot T is about 5% of the actual slot T play book. That's because those coaches know they don't have to use the majority of their playbook to screw with teams. I can guarantee you that those kids know every play in the play book and practice them, but you're not going to see them ran except in extreme emergencies. Cons: A disciplined defense will rattle them. Turnovers will kill them and make them go off script. Patient non aggressive defenses that watch the ball and slow play everything can be a problem. If you tackle everyone that crosses the line of scrimmage thinking they have the ball, they can't throw the ball from A set, thus forcing them to go to the 900 series which they don't want to do. DO NOT PLAY PISS ON PASS defense... it doesn't work... they want you to stack the box, because that's when they get you. Discipline is what beats them. Don't give them angles to block you. Stack your backers so they can't get to them, and so they can slow play and read who actually has the ball. A good nose that can push the center into the backfield can be great! That keeps the quick side pulling guard or tackle from getting across, it also pushes him into the back of the QB which disrupts the fakes and actual hand off, and potentially has him step on the foot of the QB in case it's a boot or a waggle therefore he falls right there or fumbles the ball when he's hit. For that position you want a fire hydrant type kid. Low center of gravity, broad shoulders, with legs and arms the size of an ox that can squat and bench 500-600 pounds and hasn't been able to clap his hands in 6 years... The myth that goes with those offenses is that the QB can't throw or play at the next level, and that they don't have kids that can catch, Yada, Yada, yada,... I can say they use the 1s to run spread plays for the defense at most of these schools and they are fast, can throw, can catch, and are hecka athletic.... but why conform when the machine isn't broken... I myself prefer the slot t over the loosie goosie spread... When I started this thread I just knew you would respond with a great answer. I’ve been impressed by what other teams other than Liberty Hills version of Slot T actually looks like. The Franklin version actually throws more simply because they have some very good receivers that include 2 D1 receivers. They just are a scoring machine. Bellville is smashmouth bone crusher style. Big huge linemen that can get after it.
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Post by warcat82 on Dec 12, 2023 13:36:08 GMT -6
Floresville ran the wing T for many years and had success. They key is to have a good defense, if your offense has is having time consuming drives that don't result in points. Any T offense is not typically high or quick scoring. That's a myth too... they can score extremely quickly and can score a lot of points. The game plan changes depending on the opponent. If they have a potent offense on the other side, why let them on the field? Run the plays they know will result in 3-4 and a cloud of dust. Eat the clock for an entire quarter, score and let that defense get exhausted. Then the other team possible scores in 2 or 3 plays or goes 3 and out, then you get an exhausted defense out there again and inflict your will on them until half time and score again. Now if the coach knows they are going to have to score a bunch ie 82 points like LH this year, he calls the quick hitters and the pass plays that are wide open and they score fast and often. They can do it in a hurry or wear you out, that's the beauty of that offense. Keep the clock rolling and make the other team miserable no matter the method. Wing T is similar but slightly different. I am not as big a fan of the wing t because it doesn't have many of the same quirks the slot T has. I would still choose it over the all out spread though.
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Post by warcat82 on Dec 12, 2023 13:40:36 GMT -6
So as someone who learned from some of the best slot t minds, and someone who has defended the slot t, I have no problem giving you pros and cons. Pros: In A set (primary set) 8 to 10 plays all look the same. So it's going to cause undisciplined defenses fits all night. If you have a QB that is willing to truly turn his back to the defense like a good slot t offense does, the fakes are harder to see. Boot, waggle, and drop back play action become wide open plays. The 900 series that you will rarely see (90% pass plays) opens the defense up to major plays. What most people see and think of when they see and think of for slot T is about 5% of the actual slot T play book. That's because those coaches know they don't have to use the majority of their playbook to screw with teams. I can guarantee you that those kids know every play in the play book and practice them, but you're not going to see them ran except in extreme emergencies. Cons: A disciplined defense will rattle them. Turnovers will kill them and make them go off script. Patient non aggressive defenses that watch the ball and slow play everything can be a problem. If you tackle everyone that crosses the line of scrimmage thinking they have the ball, they can't throw the ball from A set, thus forcing them to go to the 900 series which they don't want to do. DO NOT PLAY PISS ON PASS defense... it doesn't work... they want you to stack the box, because that's when they get you. Discipline is what beats them. Don't give them angles to block you. Stack your backers so they can't get to them, and so they can slow play and read who actually has the ball. A good nose that can push the center into the backfield can be great! That keeps the quick side pulling guard or tackle from getting across, it also pushes him into the back of the QB which disrupts the fakes and actual hand off, and potentially has him step on the foot of the QB in case it's a boot or a waggle therefore he falls right there or fumbles the ball when he's hit. For that position you want a fire hydrant type kid. Low center of gravity, broad shoulders, with legs and arms the size of an ox that can squat and bench 500-600 pounds and hasn't been able to clap his hands in 6 years... The myth that goes with those offenses is that the QB can't throw or play at the next level, and that they don't have kids that can catch, Yada, Yada, yada,... I can say they use the 1s to run spread plays for the defense at most of these schools and they are fast, can throw, can catch, and are hecka athletic.... but why conform when the machine isn't broken... I myself prefer the slot t over the loosie goosie spread... When I started this thread I just knew you would respond with a great answer. I’ve been impressed by what other teams other than Liberty Hills version of Slot T actually looks like. The Franklin version actually throws more simply because they have some very good receivers that include 2 D1 receivers. They just are a scoring machine. Bellville is smashmouth bone crusher style. Big huge linemen that can get after it. Yeah Franklin is one of the few slot T teams that uses the 900 series as a regular part of their game plan. In fact I would say the only one that does. They are masters at it for sure.
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Post by Clemensbuff on Dec 12, 2023 14:42:21 GMT -6
I think one of the major advantages is that you can get by with smaller offensive lineman which is a good part of the reason that it has been used by the service academies. Yup And they do it so well that they at times beat teams with far, far more talent then what they themselves have. The con of running it is when you get stuffed and cannot throw it very well. A good example of this would be last week with SV vs BVM. At halftime BVM had 53 yards rushing on 23 carries and was 1 of 5 passing for 11 yards with 3 INTs. SV DBs have 3x, 4x return yards on INTs than the 11 yards BVM had passing it.
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Post by jonathan on Dec 12, 2023 15:17:47 GMT -6
That liberty hill vs Crosby game was a classic. Loved the complete oppositeness of the teams. Aledo ended up playing Crosby that year and won 42-21 or something like that. I would have loved to see Aledo take on liberty hill. It's fun to watch for sure. I don't know how I'll watch the other games besides the Friday night game since I'll be there. I'll probably look for the person streaming on Facebook.
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Post by Hounhound on Dec 12, 2023 16:43:41 GMT -6
Floresville ran the wing T for many years and had success. They key is to have a good defense, if your offense has is having time consuming drives that don't result in points. Any T offense is not typically high or quick scoring. I will probably catch some flack here but, From MY OBSERVATION, Teams that run a smash mouth Offense are typically better on Defense as well because they practice against it. The Chuck and Duck teams that are more of a finesse Offense seem to have defenses that reflect that. They are just not as tough.
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Post by bluecat on Dec 12, 2023 17:41:23 GMT -6
Floresville ran the wing T for many years and had success. They key is to have a good defense, if your offense has is having time consuming drives that don't result in points. Any T offense is not typically high or quick scoring. I will probably catch some flack here but, From MY OBSERVATION, Teams that run a smash mouth Offense are typically better on Defense as well because they practice against it. The Chuck and Duck teams that are more of a finesse Offense seem to have defenses that reflect that. They are just not as tough. The Slot T/ Wing T was more prevalent back in my day as well as the triple option offense. Of course since we played against more often we were coached much better most defenses are today. Good well disciplined defense were much better at limiting those offenses than most bigger schools that rarely defended against it. When run well it would allow a team without big linemen a chance to equalize a more talented team. You rarely see that offense in 5&6A because those big schools have much more talent than a 2/3A team would have. Back in my day we where the smallest team in 3A and hell I only left the field except at half and the end of the game. I was RB, LBer punter Kicker & kickoff returner . I was in the best shape of my life back then and enjoyed every minute of it.
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Post by bubbme on Dec 12, 2023 17:55:42 GMT -6
I think one of the major advantages is that you can get by with smaller offensive lineman which is a good part of the reason that it has been used by the service academies. Yup And they do it so well that they at times beat teams with far, far more talent then what they themselves have. The con of running it is when you get stuffed and cannot throw it very well. A good example of this would be last week with SV vs BVM. At halftime BVM had 53 yards rushing on 23 carries and was 1 of 5 passing for 11 yards with 3 INTs. SV DBs have 3x, 4x return yards on INTs than the 11 yards BVM had passing it. The funny thing, was going into the game I thought they would throw it pretty well (at least better than Wagner). But they decided to wait until they were behind the sticks to throw it, SV had that stuff locked down!
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