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Post by picodegallo on Aug 3, 2022 14:08:10 GMT -6
Poor little Alto broke a rule and now their current upper classes will miss playoff opportunities. They misreported their numbers by 3 students...... www.ktre.com/2022/08/02/uil-rules-alto-football-ineligible-playoffs-2-years/The money quote....... “There’s no way that you guys can compete in the division you are in, it’s not going to happen. It can’t happen that’s an unfair advantage and you don’t even want that,” said Mike Motheral, Chair of the UIL State Executive Committee speaking to Alto ISD superintendent Kelly West..... Mr. Monteral, I'd like to introduce you Katy Paetow high school, circa 2020-2022..... And Shadow Creek... And Manvel.... Just to name a few who had an unfair advantage with numbers that were outdated the very next fall after they were taken but were allowed to stay in the division they were in... And not by a a dozen of so students. True they didn't cheat or misreport like you all held Alto to. But they took advantage of huge loophole which is something your organization refuses to address or fix for which a fix is there.
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BandidoNB
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Post by BandidoNB on Aug 3, 2022 14:37:34 GMT -6
Poor little Alto broke a rule and now their current upper classes will miss playoff opportunities. They misreported their numbers by 3 students...... www.ktre.com/2022/08/02/uil-rules-alto-football-ineligible-playoffs-2-years/The money quote....... “There’s no way that you guys can compete in the division you are in, it’s not going to happen. It can’t happen that’s an unfair advantage and you don’t even want that,” said Mike Motheral, Chair of the UIL State Executive Committee speaking to Alto ISD superintendent Kelly West..... Mr. Monteral, I'd like to introduce you Katy Paetow high school, circa 2020-2022..... And Shadow Creek... And Manvel.... Just to name a few who had an unfair advantage with numbers that were outdated the very next fall after they were taken but were allowed to stay in the division they were in... And not by a a dozen of so students. True they didn't cheat or misreport like you all held Alto to. But they took advantage of huge loophole which is something your organization refuses to address or fix for which a fix is there. What’s your suggested fix? Realign every year? The problem with that is scheduling disputes if there isn’t a home/away arrangement for every matchup. From what I can see, a biennial realignment is the soonest the UIL can realign campuses. Maybe the only thing I can think of to remedy another Shadow Creek / Paetow situation is to scrutinize more closely school districts that are adding new schools. Make sure their projected enrollments are on point. But you can only do that so much. Texas is a fast growing state. There will be discrepancies after realignments.
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Post by picodegallo on Aug 3, 2022 15:03:25 GMT -6
Poor little Alto broke a rule and now their current upper classes will miss playoff opportunities. They misreported their numbers by 3 students...... www.ktre.com/2022/08/02/uil-rules-alto-football-ineligible-playoffs-2-years/The money quote....... “There’s no way that you guys can compete in the division you are in, it’s not going to happen. It can’t happen that’s an unfair advantage and you don’t even want that,” said Mike Motheral, Chair of the UIL State Executive Committee speaking to Alto ISD superintendent Kelly West..... Mr. Monteral, I'd like to introduce you Katy Paetow high school, circa 2020-2022..... And Shadow Creek... And Manvel.... Just to name a few who had an unfair advantage with numbers that were outdated the very next fall after they were taken but were allowed to stay in the division they were in... And not by a a dozen of so students. True they didn't cheat or misreport like you all held Alto to. But they took advantage of huge loophole which is something your organization refuses to address or fix for which a fix is there. What’s your suggested fix? Realign every year? The problem with that is scheduling disputes if there isn’t a home/away arrangement for every matchup. From what I can see, a biennial realignment is the soonest the UIL can realign campuses. Maybe the only thing I can think of to remedy another Shadow Creek / Paetow situation is to scrutinize more closely school districts that are adding new schools. Make sure their projected enrollments are on point. But you can only do that so much. Texas is a fast growing state. There will be discrepancies after realignments. That's it right there. When an ISD builds a new school, they spend thousands of dollars into the six figures to do the studies to justify the new project. Lets say that the study says in the Fall of 2022, your enrollment based on your rezoning and possible new move ins to an area is going to be 2600, but yet when realignment snapshot was taken in the fall of 2021 it was 2150, then off to 6A you should go to start this school year and not 5A D1. I can almost be certain those demographic studies are not going to off that much especially if it involves rezoning in existing neighborhoods unless they've grandfathered a lot of kids to an existing school they were supposed to go to because of siblings already enrolled, etc. And if the growth is out of this world like it has been in some area, that projected number might be on the low side already meaning they might be even larger. The other thing which may indeed be more difficult to do is drop the counting of existing 12 graders during snap shot and take it 9 thru 11 and then throw in the 8th grade numbers to get a true count of what the snap is going to look like for the upcoming school year. Come up with an average of how many 8th graders do not make it to the 9th grade due to move outs, possible retainment in 8th, and transfer to alternative education environments and roll with those numbers. Use it as a allowance (scaled according to class) across the state for each school to deduct and you will have a more accurate number. This on top of the demographic studies to account for new move ins due to growth. The UIL just needs to get rid of the snapshot days and go with real time data.... This isn't the green ledger paper era .
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Post by rtxc1 on Aug 3, 2022 18:47:44 GMT -6
Poor little Alto broke a rule and now their current upper classes will miss playoff opportunities. They misreported their numbers by 3 students...... www.ktre.com/2022/08/02/uil-rules-alto-football-ineligible-playoffs-2-years/The money quote....... “There’s no way that you guys can compete in the division you are in, it’s not going to happen. It can’t happen that’s an unfair advantage and you don’t even want that,” said Mike Motheral, Chair of the UIL State Executive Committee speaking to Alto ISD superintendent Kelly West..... Mr. Monteral, I'd like to introduce you Katy Paetow high school, circa 2020-2022..... And Shadow Creek... And Manvel.... Just to name a few who had an unfair advantage with numbers that were outdated the very next fall after they were taken but were allowed to stay in the division they were in... And not by a a dozen of so students. True they didn't cheat or misreport like you all held Alto to. But they took advantage of huge loophole which is something your organization refuses to address or fix for which a fix is there. And Anna who will have over 1400 students this fall playing 4A D1 ball. And, I believe, Hays HS who never had less than 6A numbers despite getting to play 5A ball off of inaccurate projections. And they get to do it again!
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Post by mattsteppdctf on Aug 4, 2022 4:59:25 GMT -6
The counting of 12th graders in the upcoming alignment, especially in newer schools where there is a lack of full build out seems odd....I say in ISD's where you can easily determine the incoming 9th graders you should count 8-11...and if you cant easily determine the amount of 9th graders....count 9-11 and multiply by 1.33
As for the Alto decision, its unfortunate but I'm not sure with it being August the UIL was left w/much other choice....Alto shouldn't be in D2, if you move them or allow them to play for honors in 2022 you impact many more schools than just one who did nothing wrong
Another thing to consider is if Alto turned in the correct number are there one or two schools currently in D1 that would have been in D2?
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Post by picodegallo on Aug 4, 2022 8:55:32 GMT -6
The counting of 12th graders in the upcoming alignment, especially in newer schools where there is a lack of full build out seems odd....I say in ISD's where you can easily determine the incoming 9th graders you should count 8-11...and if you cant easily determine the amount of 9th graders....count 9-11 and multiply by 1.33 As for the Alto decision, its unfortunate but I'm not sure with it being August the UIL was left w/much other choice....Alto shouldn't be in D2, if you move them or allow them to play for honors in 2022 you impact many more schools than just one who did nothing wrong Another thing to consider is if Alto turned in the correct number are there one or two schools currently in D1 that would have been in D2? This would be a good option as well for the Snap. With Alto, I think a more "compassionate" punishment would be to make them forfeit their first two district games which would make it hard for them to make the playoffs in their existing 6 team district. Looking at their last few seasons they've been up and down so playoffs are certainly not a given anyway for them. It would still give the kids a chance to play for something and ultimately it's not their fault, especially that second year part. And why did it take until August for the UIL to resolve this?
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Post by warcat82 on Aug 4, 2022 9:10:37 GMT -6
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Post by warcat82 on Aug 4, 2022 9:13:16 GMT -6
The counting of 12th graders in the upcoming alignment, especially in newer schools where there is a lack of full build out seems odd....I say in ISD's where you can easily determine the incoming 9th graders you should count 8-11...and if you cant easily determine the amount of 9th graders....count 9-11 and multiply by 1.33 As for the Alto decision, its unfortunate but I'm not sure with it being August the UIL was left w/much other choice....Alto shouldn't be in D2, if you move them or allow them to play for honors in 2022 you impact many more schools than just one who did nothing wrong Another thing to consider is if Alto turned in the correct number are there one or two schools currently in D1 that would have been in D2? I agree with your formula, and UIL could have figured out something else... The 3-6 kids difference wouldn't make a difference for another school to me. Maybe they swap with 1 school but I highly doubt it... heck that "violation" is nothing compared to the con job that CCISD did to 5A D1 Region 4. I don't see UIL banning any CCISD schools....
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BandidoNB
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Post by BandidoNB on Aug 4, 2022 9:17:36 GMT -6
[/quote]
The UIL just needs to get rid of the snapshot days and go with real time data.... This isn't the green ledger paper era .[/quote]
Not sure this is possible. You don’t know a school’s actual enrollment until the first day of school. And by then, practices have long started and schedules are fully set in place. How are you going to start the preseason without even knowing what schools will be played or what classification you will be in?
It takes time to set schedules. And those can only be set once realignment is done. And you can’t just wing a realignment together in a few days. There are 1,500+ schools to consider. You have to use the previous years numbers. And you can’t count students that haven’t moved in yet. You gotta count actual students. The UIL isn’t perfect, but they do a pretty good job.
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Post by picodegallo on Aug 4, 2022 9:49:04 GMT -6
The UIL just needs to get rid of the snapshot days and go with real time data.... This isn't the green ledger paper era .[/quote] Not sure this is possible. You don’t know a school’s actual enrollment until the first day of school. And by then, practices have long started and schedules are fully set in place. How are you going to start the preseason without even knowing what schools will be played or what classification you will be in? It takes time to set schedules. And those can only be set once realignment is done. And you can’t just wing a realignment together in a few days. There are 1,500+ schools to consider. You have to use the previous years numbers. And you can’t count students that haven’t moved in yet. You gotta count actual students. The UIL isn’t perfect, but they do a pretty good job. [/quote] It might be logistically impossible under the current setup. I get that and that is not what I'm suggesting. First, why can't realignment be pushed to March to at least get a good subset of numbers for the spring term for example? The data SHOULD not be limited to a particular week in October and should be sampled regularly leading up to the day when numbers have to be assembled for the alignments. The current model doesn't guarantee an accurate count either and it allows the Katy Paetows and others to play in Divisions they should not be playing in even before the new alignments officially go into effect. And if an ISD is not prepared for a certain number of students before a school year starts, then they need to evaluate their planning. Most are going to be off by few dozen on either side of their projected first day enrollment. No would should pretend a school like Katy Paetow didn't know when they started classes last year they would have 3200 students on campus and not 2100. The UIL made a big deal about investing in software to help with the realignment so the old days of sticking pins and string on a Texas map on the walls would be gone. They need to go the next step with the data they use going into that program because the current intake of that data is old.
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Post by Hounhound on Aug 4, 2022 10:22:45 GMT -6
Poor little Alto broke a rule and now their current upper classes will miss playoff opportunities. They misreported their numbers by 3 students...... www.ktre.com/2022/08/02/uil-rules-alto-football-ineligible-playoffs-2-years/The money quote....... “There’s no way that you guys can compete in the division you are in, it’s not going to happen. It can’t happen that’s an unfair advantage and you don’t even want that,” said Mike Motheral, Chair of the UIL State Executive Committee speaking to Alto ISD superintendent Kelly West..... Mr. Monteral, I'd like to introduce you Katy Paetow high school, circa 2020-2022..... And Shadow Creek... And Manvel.... Just to name a few who had an unfair advantage with numbers that were outdated the very next fall after they were taken but were allowed to stay in the division they were in... And not by a a dozen of so students. True they didn't cheat or misreport like you all held Alto to. But they took advantage of huge loophole which is something your organization refuses to address or fix for which a fix is there. Don't forget George Ranch HS.
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Post by picodegallo on Aug 4, 2022 12:50:12 GMT -6
Poor little Alto broke a rule and now their current upper classes will miss playoff opportunities. They misreported their numbers by 3 students...... www.ktre.com/2022/08/02/uil-rules-alto-football-ineligible-playoffs-2-years/The money quote....... “There’s no way that you guys can compete in the division you are in, it’s not going to happen. It can’t happen that’s an unfair advantage and you don’t even want that,” said Mike Motheral, Chair of the UIL State Executive Committee speaking to Alto ISD superintendent Kelly West..... Mr. Monteral, I'd like to introduce you Katy Paetow high school, circa 2020-2022..... And Shadow Creek... And Manvel.... Just to name a few who had an unfair advantage with numbers that were outdated the very next fall after they were taken but were allowed to stay in the division they were in... And not by a a dozen of so students. True they didn't cheat or misreport like you all held Alto to. But they took advantage of huge loophole which is something your organization refuses to address or fix for which a fix is there. Don't forget George Ranch HS. Yep... That's another one.
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BandidoNB
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Post by BandidoNB on Aug 4, 2022 15:16:56 GMT -6
Poor little Alto broke a rule and now their current upper classes will miss playoff opportunities. They misreported their numbers by 3 students...... www.ktre.com/2022/08/02/uil-rules-alto-football-ineligible-playoffs-2-years/The money quote....... “There’s no way that you guys can compete in the division you are in, it’s not going to happen. It can’t happen that’s an unfair advantage and you don’t even want that,” said Mike Motheral, Chair of the UIL State Executive Committee speaking to Alto ISD superintendent Kelly West..... Mr. Monteral, I'd like to introduce you Katy Paetow high school, circa 2020-2022..... And Shadow Creek... And Manvel.... Just to name a few who had an unfair advantage with numbers that were outdated the very next fall after they were taken but were allowed to stay in the division they were in... And not by a a dozen of so students. True they didn't cheat or misreport like you all held Alto to. But they took advantage of huge loophole which is something your organization refuses to address or fix for which a fix is there. Don't forget George Ranch HS. My understand of the month of October as snapshot day is because that is when campus enrollments are at their peak. Enrollments slowly rise after the beginning of the school year in August, peak in October, and then generally start declining in the winter and spring. The problem with estimating enrollment numbers in your snapshot numbers is that you are now dealing with hypotheticals. What about the schools who project a decline in enrollment. Once you open that Pandora’s box, then there is more room for fudging between more schools. At some point, you have to just pick a point of time, realign base off of that point in time - and let the chips fall where they may between then.
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Post by Hounhound on Aug 4, 2022 16:07:53 GMT -6
Apparently the UIL uses the HONOR syatem when validating enrollment numbers and does no Checking to see if schools are on the up and up when reporting their numbers. I don't think Alto Tried to game the system. Just made an error somewhere and now the Senior and Junior classes will have to pay for it. Feel bad for those kids.
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Post by mattsteppdctf on Aug 4, 2022 16:58:32 GMT -6
Apparently the UIL uses the HONOR syatem when validating enrollment numbers and does no Checking to see if schools are on the up and up when reporting their numbers. I don't think Alto Tried to game the system. Just made an error somewhere and now the Senior and Junior classes will have to pay for it. Feel bad for those kids. The UIL will check the TEA database for major discrepancies etc....schools won't lie there because school funding is based on enrollments....a lot of schools do end up making changes between snapshot day and realignment because the UIL catches it..there was a six man school that tried gaming the system but the UIL caught it and it got updated and they moved up...wanna say it was Water Valley...so it happens more than we know because it never make it out...this time the UIL didnt catch it and it got brought to light after the fact...I find it hard to believe a school the size of Alto that someone didnt know something was wonky with those 3 kids who were in class and in off-season but not enrolled until the first Mon of November
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